Mouthpiece Taper for Benge 190F

[KTSlider]

I recently purchased a well used Benge 190F off of Ebay. The horn did not come with a mouthpiece, but I managed to pick up an inexpensive large shank Conn 5G at my favorite local music store just before they shut down due to COVID-19.

After much cleaning of the horn, I inserted the shiny Conn 5G and noticed an ever so slight wobble. There is also a slight buzz in the sound, noticeable in the upper register. When removing the mouthpiece, I can feel condensation along the outside of the mouthpiece shank. All these things seem to add up to a mouthpiece with the wrong taper for the leadpipe.

If I were to guess, I'd say that the mouthpiece is a Morse taper and the Benge 190F is fitted with a Remington taper leadpipe. If any music shops were open, I'd take it in test until finding the properly fitting mouthpiece, but alas, we live in interesting times and this is not an option. Given that, I get the opportunity to ask the smartest trombone people on the planet (that's all of you!) if anyone has experience fitting a mouthpiece to the wonderful Benge 190F.

Thanks in advance for all of your comments!
KTSlider

[Doug Elliott]

Benges and King large shank horns typically have a receiver taper that is neither Morse nor Conn, it's in between. A normal Morse taper will go in too far and wobble exactly as you noticed, and a Conn shank won't go in far enough and will wobble the other direction. Most of the mouthpieces that came with those hons will fit OK, but both the receivers and mouthpieces were inconsistent. It's kind of bizarre because otherwise they were very well made.

In my mouthpieces, I make a special King taper that fits properly in most of them.

[chromebone]

I have two 190’s. The old style Schilke long shank dual taper fits pretty well into both. Doug is right, the leadpipe was not consistent in them. I think the later production horns around 1998-2000 have a slightly different leadpipe. My long shank 51 sticks out slightly more in my 1998 than my 1990 horn. But it plays fine, in tune and the partials line up on both without any wobble.

[Jbeckett]

Listen Tom Doug. Shilkies (long taper) and wicks usually work, but a Doug Elliott piece is much better IMHO.

[KTSlider]

Thanks for the advice, guys. Looks like I might just treat myself to a fine work of art/engineering by Doug Elliott!

[bassclef]

If at some point you'd like to track down the mouthpiece which came with the horn when it was new, it's a Benge Marcellus. They don't pop up too often, but when they do, they're usually not too expensive. I had one for a while (with a Benge 190C) and thought it was a good match. It did have a slightly different shank taper. I can't really speak to many specifics about it, but it's in the 5G range.

You can also keep an eye out for other BENGE large shank mouthpieces which, in my experience, have the uniquely tapered shank.