Schilke 51

[victor]

Hi everyone.
I have a Schilke 51 purchased two years ago that has a shorter shank than another apparently older Schilke 51 model and has a longer shank
What are the differences between them?

Thank you

[chromebone]

The longer shank models are something of a dual taper, a combination of a Morse taper, like the shorter one (Morse taper is pretty much the standard now) and the Brown and Sharpe taper(also known as Remington to us trombonists).

Back when the Schilkes were originally designed, Conn (B&S taper) and Bach (Morse taper) were the two dominant large bore trombones. Each was designed with the assumption that the player would use the mouthpiece supplied by the respective manufacturer (Olds Large bores have something of their own; only Olds mouthpieces fit those properly). Schilke designed theirs to fit either leadpipe. If you try to put a Bach mouthpiece into an older 88h, it will wobble a bit, unless the leadpipe has been reshaped from years of forcing a Morse taper into it. (I’m not sure what happens when you put a Remington mouthpiece into a Bach, I think it sticks out really far?) The long shank Schilkes fit the B&S taper a little better than the Morse; they sometimes stick out a little further in a Morse taper leadpipe, although I’ve never had any particular problem with tuning or partials using the long shanks in Morse receivers.

As time went on, most players gravitated to Bach or Schilke mouthpieces no matter which horn they played, and of course there are many other mouthpiece choices available these days, all having settled on the Morse taper as the standard. 88H’s are now designed to accept a Morse taper.

In the late ‘90’s/early 2000’s Schilke redesigned the shank to Morse taper, although you can still special order the longer shank.

My personal preference is for the longer shank versions, I like the way the shank focuses the airstream better, but your mileage may vary.

[Dennis]

Schilke designed theirs to fit either leadpipe. If you try to put a Bach mouthpiece into an older 88h, it will wobble a bit, unless the leadpipe has been reshaped from years of forcing a Morse taper into it. (I’m not sure what happens when you put a Remington mouthpiece into a Bach, I think it sticks out really far?)

Conn never manufactured the range of mouthpieces that Bach made. The B&S taper mouthpieces they made were the Remington and the 3B bass trombone mouthpiece. I'm not aware of any others. A Remington mouthpiece didn't go in as far as it should. That messed up the intonation and how the partials line up. To do it, you'd have to really like the Remington mouthpiece and really like how the 42 (or large bore Holton of the era) played.

I never much cared for the Remington mouthpiece myself, and I don't recall being around anyone who really liked it. I knew a few people who used them because they were the mouthpiece that came with their (8)8H, and Bach mouthpieces didn't really fit. If you were out in the sticks where Schilke mouthpieces weren't very available, the Remington was really almost the only game in town. (Beversdorf at Indiana was making mouthpieces with the B&S taper, but the only people I've known who had one were Beversdorf students.)

If you played a Bach 42, 45, or 50 you had a lot more choices available.

[Bach5G]

How do the newer shorter designs stack up wrt intonation in horns with the Morse taper?

[Dennis]

How do the newer shorter designs stack up wrt intonation in horns with the Morse taper?

I don't know. I gave away my Schilke mouthpieces (51 and 60, both long shanks and a 51D small shank I used when playing euph) when I graduated from college in the late 70s.