Sudden Change in Shires Slide

ttf_Noahharry · Post by **ttf_Noahharry** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:39 am

I own a Shires Q series horn, which before yesterday, was perfect. The slide is effectively a TW47, but marked "Q" Anyway, yesterday I decided to give the slide a bath because it was becoming a little sluggish. I put the outer, inner and leadpipe on a soft surface on the bottom of the tub, and put some standard dish soap in the tub. Then filled the tub a few inches with the most moderate lukewarm water possible. When I took it out, first, half of the lacquer was peeling off, and second the slide felt worse. My slide was like a 7/10 when sluggish, a 9.5-10/10 when good and clean, and now it feels like a 5/10. The lacquer isn't a huge deal but the slide is. I brushed the inners and outers with cheese cloth on rod and I use yamasnot with a spray of water. Nothing helped. What am I missing?

ttf_NBee · Post by **ttf_NBee** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:04 am

This happens sometimes with horns. I think what may have happened is your slide became misaligned. If the heat was enough to cause lacquer peeling, it is enough to cause changes in the alignment of the tubes.

First, I would make sure each inner tube goes in and out of it's corresponding outer tube well. This way you know its the alignment. Then take it to a tech to fix it.

If the inner tubs (or outer tubes) are warped, which can happen from heat, then you're gonna need to see a tech asap.

ttf_Noahharry · Post by **ttf_Noahharry** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:16 am

I think thats definitely a possibility, but the heat was so moderate that there is very little possibility that it warped the slide.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:20 am

What was the brand of dishsoap? There are a few threads on some of the positives/negatives that can happen when using dishsoap and I recall a few of them having chemicals that can cause similar problems. Even milder ones that you wouldn't think would be a problem. Is it still under warranty? I don't imagine getting the slide wet would void such a warranty.

ttf_Noahharry · Post by **ttf_Noahharry** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:25 am

I got it new earlier this year and I believe shires warranties last at least a year.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:43 am

Quote from: Noahharry on Jul 11, 2017, 11:25AMI got it new earlier this year and I believe shires warranties last at least a year.

I'd definitely give them a call (or whomever you purchased it from). That seems like something that would be covered in a warranty

ttf_john sandhagen · Post by **ttf_john sandhagen** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:48 pm

Steam might become an issue (over 212), but hot water should not affect the metal.

Talk to your retailer.

ttf_jack · Post by **ttf_jack** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:34 pm

If the lacquer was peeling off, where did the bits go?

ttf_Noahharry · Post by **ttf_Noahharry** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:38 pm

Quote from: jack on Jul 11, 2017, 01:34PMIf the lacquer was peeling off, where did the bits go?

That was one of my concerns, but the lacquer didn't seem to start peeling until I wiped it off with a rag. But that is a possibility.

Also, I just tried the slide a again from not being used for 12 hours or so and it seems to be much smoother but still a bit of a "Scratchy" feeling and sound.

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:57 pm

They must be using a water based cellulose lacquer. I'm not sure why they would want to do that in this day and age. They certainly use a better lacquer on their custom and Eastman horns.

Most water heaters come set for 150 degrees F. This should not cause metal to warp, but might remove cheap lacquer. Undoubtedly you used some cold water too, and there would have been a temperature drop in the pipe. My guess is the lacquer should not have come off, and that alone should get you a replacement/repair under warranty.

Sometimes when I give a horn a bath like that and swab it out, I get a little scratchiness for a while, but it usually goes away after a little while. No idea what is causing it.

ttf_Blowero · Post by **ttf_Blowero** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:16 pm

Quote from: Noahharry on Jul 11, 2017, 01:38PMThat was one of my concerns, but the lacquer didn't seem to start peeling until I wiped it off with a rag. But that is a possibility.

Also, I just tried the slide a again from not being used for 12 hours or so and it seems to be much smoother but still a bit of a "Scratchy" feeling and sound.

Try filling the outer slide with water and soap again, snaking it out, and rinsing it really well. Don't put it in the bathtub again; just fill it and rinse it in the sink. Maybe something got inside there when you had it in the bathtub and the cheesecloth didn't really get it all out?

ttf_mr.deacon · Post by **ttf_mr.deacon** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:26 pm

The 1-10 numbering system is kind of subjective... I have a Shires slide and use trombotine.

When I don't clean my slide for a couple of weeks at its worst it's around a 7/10 but when cleaner its around a 9/10 (I think right now it's slightly out of alignment preventing it from being a 9.5ish).

Right after I clean it it's usually like a 6/10 and the next day it's like a 8/10 once more of the trombotine stays in there. Within a day or two it's back at a 9/10.

Maybe your slide is still really dry on the inside? It usually takes a day or two to coat the inside of the outers again with whatever your lube of choice is.

ttf_cigmar · Post by **ttf_cigmar** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:43 pm

I'm thinking there may be some soap residue left on both inners and outers, but especially on the outers. Try pouring some rubbing alcohol on some cheesecloth or muslin wrapped around a cleaning rod and swab the outers. Use the same on some cloth to clean the inners. Rinse both real well with cold water.

ttf_jalapeno · Post by **ttf_jalapeno** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:41 pm

for reference, while away from home for the past two weeks and after playing outdoors (which I really don't like doing because of dirt and such in the air, but music building wan't open in the early hours), I also bathed my slide in the tub. I used hotter than luke-warm water, and Old Spice "swagger" body wash because that was all I had besides Axe body wash. I soaked for 30+ minutes and used a snake, rinsed well, and no problems with slide motion or lacquer. Use that warranty !

can't hurt to get a brand new or fixed slide straight from Shires !

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:39 pm

Yeah, warm water should not cause lacquer peeling. What kind of dish detergent was it?

The lacquer on slides can survive chemical cleans and ultrasonic cleans. Bathing it in a bathtub should not cause it to fall off.

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:20 am

Quote from: jalapeno on Jul 11, 2017, 05:41PMI used ... Old Spice "swagger" body wash

Now I wanna see a Terry Crews commercial with a trombone in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq2SlCja3zo

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:20 am

Quote from: jalapeno on Jul 11, 2017, 05:41PMI used ... Old Spice "swagger" body wash

Now I wanna see a Terry Crews commercial with a trombone in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq2SlCja3zo