Using a 'no leadpipe' mouthpiece

[Bennybassbone]

What do people do when they play a no leadpipe mouthpiece (with the bigger shank) Do you simply just take your leadpipe out or is there an adapter that you fit? Does the threading get damaged if you chop and change? I have found a collar on Hickeys but don't fancy spending big $ if there is an easy solution. Many thanks!

[FullPedalTrombonist]

I just take the leadpipe out. No damage done with the actual leadpipeless mouthpiece. I also have an adapter that threads in like a stubby leadpipe. It’s not quite the same I think.

[Bennybassbone]

Thanks for that. Did you buy the adapter or make it yourself? I see Instrument Innovations have a nut that fits into Shires (and heaps of other brands) threading but I would imagine it would fit a standard large shank mouthpiece ? Cheers

[Doug Elliott]

If you're interested in my mouthpieces, I can make them with shanks that substitute for a leadpipe. I don't do the threaded collar. There are potential problems - some slide tubes are not the bore size they're supposed to be.

[FullPedalTrombonist]

I made the adapter by very carefully modifying a an already ruined leadpipe I got specifically to try this. The next step was to go to Doug, actually, but it ended up not being my cup of tea. It only cost me a little bit of time to make the adapter and gained me some experience playing with it and the borrowed leadpipeless mouthpiece. I like the help of a leadpipe for my regular playing for a more focused, compact, and direct sound I try to achieve most of the time, but the times that call for a much more massive and broad bass trombone sound and that’s why I still have my adapter.

[Doug Elliott]

I have never been in favor of going without the leadpipe - there's a reason modern instruments have leadpipes. And just about everybody who went through the fad of playing without a leadpipe has gone back to using one. The beginning of the horn is kind of critical to how it plays.

[harrisonreed]

I've stopped thinking that interchangeable leadpipes are even all that great... How the venturi in the mouthpiece relates to the venturi in the leadpipe -- the distance between them and how the step into the leadpipe mates up -- that is what you need to get right. Then the horn plays the way it's supposed to play. Changing the leadpipe changes the whole horn. I think the guys reaching for the 1.5 and 2.5 pipes are really just finding a way of fixing the mouthpiece problem without changing the mouthpiece. Removing it altogether seems...macho? I dunno, maybe in a bad way.

What is the benefit? I know the big name player who played without one gave up on that idea a long time ago.

[TromboneMonkey]

I don't know-- I have several .500 leadpipes for my Lawler and they each profoundly affect the way it plays. I have two from BrassArk, 32h copies in copper and silver, and section mates in pop horn sections can tell the difference, live, between them.

I don't know about a leadpipeless horn, but I have experienced very significant differences between interchangeable pipes and am very glad I ordered the horn without the soldered pipe since I never use the stock one.

That said, I pulled the pipe on my Yamaha 354 and none of the other pipes I've tried in it work as well, and I would fight someone if (s)he tried to pull my Williams or Bach 36 pipes.

Hey Doug maybe I could try one of your leadpipeless shanks in my Yamaha. Have you done it on yours?

[harrisonreed]

I don't know-- I have several .500 leadpipes for my Lawler and they each profoundly affect the way it plays. I have two from BrassArk, 32h copies in copper and silver, and section mates in pop horn sections can tell the difference, live, between them.

I have no doubt that they do! Are they all useful though? Does each profoundly different leadpipe create a sound that is worth pursuing? Or is each one just a different set of variables that requires a different approach to get where you need to go? I'd sooner grab for a different DE cup if I needed a different sound in a pop section or big band section than swap out a leadpipe.

That's interesting that, in general, you seem to like stock pipes except in the case of the lawler. I wonder if it is really different compared to most of your other horns.

Each pipe might be different, but did you eventually settle into one setup that is your go to setup?

How do we get to the spot in life where our section mates are saying "man, your sound!" Instead of "yeah, I think I really could hear the difference between leadpipe 1 and leadpipe 2!".

[GBP]

After buying countless leadpipes, I am back to the Edwards #3 that came with the horn

[TromboneMonkey]

I don't know-- I have several .500 leadpipes for my Lawler and they each profoundly affect the way it plays. I have two from BrassArk, 32h copies in copper and silver, and section mates in pop horn sections can tell the difference, live, between them.

I have no doubt that they do! Are they all useful though?

Oh, not at all. I agree with you. I use exactly 1 leadpipe for 100% of my stuff (the silver 32h copy). I just meant that I am pleased that it did in fact have interchangeable leadpipes so that I could find the one that worked best!

I really hate switching out gear, which consistent with your point from before.

[LeTromboniste]

The historical instruments I play don't have leadpipes and I have to say, the freedom in sound color that it provides is amazing, but I would probably never want to even think of playing a modern American style trombone in a modern context without a leadpipe.

I also don't really see how the absence of a leadpipe would help achieve a "massive, broad sound"(also worth questioning how much more massive a bass trombone should sound, we're already giving tinnitus and acoustic shocks and other career-ending ear injuries to our colleagues and drowning 100-strong symphonies...). The leadpipe helps focus the sound, makes the response more direct, stable and predictable and makes it more efficient in terms of effort to sound volume. In my experience it's hard to control a leadpipeless instrument at very loud dynamics if you keep a very open embouchure that would yield that massive and broad sound. More likely is to control it you need to go to a closed vowel (the way the Germans traditionally played), which makes your sound much brighter and directional than playing with the leadpipe in the first place.

[Oslide]

More likely is to control it you need to go to a closed vowel (the way the Germans traditionally played), which makes your sound much brighter and directional than playing with the leadpipe in the first place.

Could you expand a bit on this, or provide some reference? Thank you!

[FullPedalTrombonist]

For my uses my adapter comes in handy when bass trombone is written as an effect more so than an instrument. With a leadpipe it sounds like a bass trombone playing very loudly. Without it sounds like a very raw sound effect. The difference between punching through an ensemble and forming a wall of presence. It’s very easy to accomplish that sound, but it’s not like I’m trying to. It’s not so easy to pull it back and play delicately or with nuance without a leadpipe for me. It just sounds more how it wants to sound. I’m sure there are those who can make it work. Again my ideal or typical bass trombone sound and playing setting doesn’t work without a leadpipe. If it’s something you want to explore I won’t discourage anyone, but I can say it didn’t work for me and I tried two ways.