Cutting a rath R9d

ttf_BoneyW · Post by **ttf_BoneyW** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:33 pm

Hi,

Instrument plays a bit flat (I use a doug elliott with a 1 1/4 type cup), tuning slide is in all the way. Were to cut to bring it up to pitch? There is a brace very close to the smaller side of the main tuning slide, leaving not much room to cut without moving the bracing (i d rather not do that).

Any tips, tricks?

Dont know if it matters but it is an older one (sn: r9-24x).

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:51 pm

Quote from: BoneyW on Jun 18, 2017, 02:33PMAny tips, tricks?

Yes, bring it to an experienced tech. It's not just a simple matter of cutting. A good tech will know what to do. In all likelihood braces, ferules and receivers will have to be removed, the correct tubing cut, then all carefully re-assembled.

ttf_Sliphorn · Post by **ttf_Sliphorn** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:04 pm

Extremely surprising to hear that an R9 is playing sharp. I assume this is not a problem with you other horns?

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:41 am

Quote from: Sliphorn on Jun 18, 2017, 07:04PMExtremely surprising to hear that an R9 is playing sharp. I assume this is not a problem with you other horns?

He said flat not sharp

Mick did make shorter tuning slides for me for my first Raths, so shortened tuning slides do not affect the playing qualities of the R9, but as has been said, modification will not be too simple.

Chris Stearn

ttf_BoneyW · Post by **ttf_BoneyW** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:26 am

Quote from: blast on Jun 19, 2017, 12:41AMHe said flat not sharp

Mick did make shorter tuning slides for me for my first Raths, so shortened tuning slides do not affect the playing qualities of the R9, but as has been said, modification will not be too simple.

Chris Stearn

Thanks! I am thinking the best place is the last cylindrical tube part near the bend (where the r is soldered). But that would mean losing the R...

ttf_Sliphorn · Post by **ttf_Sliphorn** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:28 am

Whoops...I meant flat.

ttf_Lawrie · Post by **ttf_Lawrie** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:33 am

I know it might be a little more expensive, but this is a modular horn... Why cut it and make it unable to be fitted with other parts from the modular options available?

Rather, I'd approach Rath and get a shorter tuning slide made. This will keep the modularity effective.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:54 am

Doesn't a shorter tuning slide mean changing the curvature of the tuning slide crook? Chris would know better that I but I would think, leaving the modular issue aside for the moment, cutting the tuning slide receiver tubes and the the legs of the actual tuning slide would be the way to go. Many folks had their tuning slides cut on Bachs years ago buy altering the actual tuning slide itself and there were issues with pitch.

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:40 am

Have you tried contacting Rath directly regarding this? Maybe they have some other suggestions, like a different leadpipe.

ttf_elmsandr · Post by **ttf_elmsandr** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:47 am

Another often mentioned method (depending on construction) is to slightly shorten the handslide. The outers on most makes are often 1/2" or more longer than the inners. Sometimes a bit can be trimmed off before the crook with minimal effort (though still basically a slide rebuild).

I would contact Rath before you make any permanent cuts, they may have a better idea of what is going on. Maybe the slide(s) you have are intentionally long?

Cheers,
Andy

ttf_BoneyW · Post by **ttf_BoneyW** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:57 am

Thanks all. I have contacted Rath now, we ll see. This one is build solid (older one).

There is not much room to cut the handslide, so thats not an option. Actually to most easy thing to do (did it on a tenor with great succes).

I do not see how the leadpipe could lower the pitch...

Maybe Rath can build a schorter tuning slide...

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:11 am

Quote from: BoneyW on Jun 19, 2017, 10:57AMThanks all. I have contacted Rath now, we ll see. This one is build solid (older one).

There is not much room to cut the handslide, so thats not an option. Actually to most easy thing to do (did it on a tenor with great succes).

I do not see how the leadpipe could lower the pitch...

Maybe Rath can build a schorter tuning slide...

You need to reduce the length of the two inner and two outer main tuning slide tubes. 240 on build should not be solid... that changed earlier.... the dependent option was not on early instruments either. Could be a special order solid build ?

Chris Stearn

ttf_BoneyW · Post by **ttf_BoneyW** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:21 pm

Quote from: blast on Jun 19, 2017, 11:11AMYou need to reduce the length of the two inner and two outer main tuning slide tubes. 240 on build should not be solid... that changed earlier.... the dependent option was not on early instruments either. Could be a special order solid build ?

Chris Stearn

Thanks! It was indeed special order (all yellow, solid)

ttf_BoneyW · Post by **ttf_BoneyW** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:10 am

Quote from: BoneyW on Jun 19, 2017, 01:21PMThanks! It was indeed special order (all yellow, solid)

Rath says exactly the same, cut the ts legs. @chris: did you bother to keep the rings at the end of the outer legs??

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:11 am

Mine were done at the factory so the ring was retained by cutting the other end, having first disassembled the parts.

Chris Stearn

ttf_BoneyW · Post by **ttf_BoneyW** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:29 pm

Update:

Just had the handslide shortenend. Agreed with the tech that it was easier to do. Rath advised both options btw (for me to choose which option). 1 cm was cut. Much better

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:03 pm

Did the have to cut the inner tubes?

If they did, do you still have a usable 7th?

Of course, you probably don't use 7th much with an R9.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:04 am

Quote from: BoneyW on Jul 12, 2017, 02:29PMUpdate:

Just had the handslide shortenend. Agreed with the tech that it was easier to do. Rath advised both options btw (for me to choose which option). 1 cm was cut. Much better

Just curious how was cutting and reassembling the hand slide easier than cutting a tuning slide?

ttf_elmsandr · Post by **ttf_elmsandr** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:53 am

Quote from: wgwbassbone on Jul 13, 2017, 07:04AMJust curious how was cutting and reassembling the hand slide easier than cutting a tuning slide?
If you only have to cut 2 tubes instead of four, it isn't too bad. Just take off the crook, trim, put it back on and make sure you don't screw up the alignment.

I screw that up, but I have seen a couple of slide guys do this really well and really quick.

Cheers,
Andy

ttf_HouBassTrombone · Post by **ttf_HouBassTrombone** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:30 am

I had to have this done on an early R9DTIS. Not a big deal and the horn played great after the handslide was cut down.

ttf_Catastrophone · Post by **ttf_Catastrophone** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:24 am

I also had to have an early R9 shortened (#27). I think the early horns had a tendency to be flat with larger mouthpieces.

I believe much of the development was done by a player using a 2G which may have had something to do with this.

ttf_BoneyW · Post by **ttf_BoneyW** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:47 pm

Quote from: elmsandr on Jul 13, 2017, 08:53AMIf you only have to cut 2 tubes instead of four, it isn't too bad. Just take off the crook, trim, put it back on and make sure you don't screw up the alignment.

I screw that up, but I have seen a couple of slide guys do this really well and really quick.

Cheers,
Andy

Yup, very easy. Slides were very straight said the repairman, no wear on the inside of the outer tubes at all

ttf_BoneyW · Post by **ttf_BoneyW** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:47 pm

Quote from: elmsandr on Jul 13, 2017, 08:53AMIf you only have to cut 2 tubes instead of four, it isn't too bad. Just take off the crook, trim, put it back on and make sure you don't screw up the alignment.

I screw that up, but I have seen a couple of slide guys do this really well and really quick.

Cheers,
Andy

Yup, very easy. Slides were very straight said the repairman, no wear on the inside of the outer tubes at all