Thumb hitting chin with Bach 36BO?

[Tarkus697]

A few years ago, I started playing regularly again after many years, and I've noticed that when my thumb is on the trigger of my Bach 36BO (circa '89), my thumb comes in contact with my chin. The rim of my mouthpiece (Schilke 50) is below the trigger when I look at it.

I don't have this issue with my Rath R2F or my Yamaha 356G. Is this something that is normal for Bach horns? A fellow trombonist in the concert band I play in said his beard would get snagged in the trigger sometimes, so I'm thinking this is par for the course for Bachs.

[Neo Bri]

I don't have that problem and I have 3 Bach 36s, including my main, which is a 90s Bach 36BO. Either you have a long chin, long thumb, you're thumb is contacting the paddle too high, or something is odd about the trigger mech. I'd be curious to see a picture of the linkage/paddle.

[tbonesullivan]

Sounds like something may be out of place.

[Tarkus697]

I *have* gained some weight but I didn't think my chin had gotten that fat.

I'll get some pics up in a bit, as well as a side view with my profile and such.

I use a Neotech grip but this happens even when not using the grip.

[Matt K]

If your profile picture is any indication about how you hold your horns, I will say it does look like a slight deviation from what I do and indeed what I see most players do. It looks a little on the 'high" side and hand rotated perhaps around your mouthpieces? That's possibly going bring an F attachment lever that is oriented to the left in contact with you. The reason the 356 and R2F don't is that the 356 is a right oriented trigger and so you are probably holding the horn with less of a rotation towards your face because it's basically impossible to do anything else. I don't know if the R2F is oriented similarly but the Rath geometry is very different from most other horns.

For what it's worth, the Bach style "footprint" (I say that rather than style because most horns have different geometry and shape to the paddle itself but the basic location of where the trigger is) is predominant for most contemporary F attachment horns. In other words, it isn't unusual for Bach horns to have that shape F attachment lever, nor is it unusual for contemporary horns to have that type of F attachment lever. So you would likely run into that issue on a lot of horns, not just the Bach.

[Tarkus697]

If your profile picture is any indication about how you hold your horns, I will say it does look like a slight deviation from what I do and indeed what I see most players do. It looks a little on the 'high" side and hand rotated perhaps around your mouthpieces? That's possibly going bring an F attachment lever that is oriented to the left in contact with you. The reason the 356 and R2F don't is that the 356 is a right oriented trigger and so you are probably holding the horn with less of a rotation towards your face because it's basically impossible to do anything else. I don't know if the R2F is oriented similarly but the Rath geometry is very different from most other horns.

For what it's worth, the Bach style "footprint" (I say that rather than style because most horns have different geometry and shape to the paddle itself but the basic location of where the trigger is) is predominant for most contemporary F attachment horns. In other words, it isn't unusual for Bach horns to have that shape F attachment lever, nor is it unusual for contemporary horns to have that type of F attachment lever. So you would likely run into that issue on a lot of horns, not just the Bach.

The Rath and Bach both have the left-oriented trigger, though the Rath paddle is adjustable via an Allen wrench, so I've adjusted that.

I have noticed that with my Bach, the mouthpieces seem to go further into the leadpipe than on my other horns. Rath and Yamaha, the mouth piece sits above the trigger a little when looking at it from the side. The mouthpiece on the Bach is a bit lower than the trigger.

[Tarkus697]

Looks like it's the Neotech handgrip I'm using. When I hold the horn without it, I don't have any issues.

Time to play with adjustments!

[Tarkus697]

Revisiting this. It's still hitting my chin. See these links for how low the mouthpiece sits in the receiver.

My Rath R2F doesn't have this issue, but it's a totally different horn.

[bigbandbone]

Is that the stock OEM thumb lever or a custom add on?

[Burgerbob]

That's the original, but it looks like it's in a bad spot.

[Tarkus697]

Stock. Got the horn brand new in spring of '90 my junior year of HS.

When you say "in a bad spot," do you mean it needs a severe adjustment or does the lever need replacing? I've never had major work done on this horn aside from routine cleanings when playing regularly and a dent removal here and there.

[Burgerbob]

A new lever and linkage would be pretty easy for a good tech, and it'll be quicker and quieter too than the ball/socket arrangement. I just had a similar horn of a similar vintage, I feel that those levers were assembled pretty inconsistently- in different places on the brace. Yours just happens to be in a spot very close to you.

[Tarkus697]

Fair point. I had looked into that in the past but had seen that the older ball/socket setup was pretty reliable and quiet, to I let it be. Being that the horn *is* about 30 years old

My Rath R2F has the newer type linkage and with some Hetman Bearing and Linkage oil, it's dead quiet.

The funny thing is for the 6 years I played this horn regularly in HS in College, I never noticed (or remember) the lever hitting my chin. It's only in the last several years since I started playing regularly again (after a 20+ year hiatus) that it came to my attention.

I'll order a replacement from Hickey's and get in touch with my horn guy once things calm down a bit.

Thanks for the input, folks!