Ergobone redesign

[hyperbolica]

In another thread I was kvetching about the ergobone. So instead of hijacking that one, I'm starting this one with a redesign of the ergobone to make it easier to use and less potentially dangerous for your horn. Here's a screen capture from the CAD work.

The red parts make the pivot into a spherical joint, the blue part hooks to the trombone without screws, and the green part completes the spherical joint. So everything stays assembled, and you can take it off and put it on easily. The transparent part is the barrels and grip of the slide. mouthpiece to help you get oriented. The gray part is the steel rod and pivot of the existing design.

[Specialk3700]

Very interesting. As someone who has never used ergobone what would be the advantage of this design?

[Burgerbob]

The current setup kind of sucks. It's a 4 piece clamp (rubber pad, two sides of the clamp, and nut) that has to be juggled as you attach it to a horn every time. One that could just slip on and off would be a huge deal.

[hyperbolica]

Very interesting. As someone who has never used ergobone what would be the advantage of this design?

1) The first problem is attaching and reattaching the device. Currently you have to use a big honking steel nut to attach/unattach. That's inconvenient and I almost always drop the nut when I take it off, and it can hit your bell or slide if you're not careful.

2) The second is that the device only pivots in one direction, and if you have to tilt your horn side to side, you have to go against the clamp, which can scrape up your horn.

3) When you take the horn off of the harness if you use that, and put it on a trombone stand, the solid steel rod hangs down next to your slide, which looks bad plus it's just an accident waiting to happen.

This design enables you to connect to the horn without screws, and the mechanism always remains assembled.

It also makes the pivot into a spherical joint, so you can adjust in any direction.

When you put the horn on the stand, you can remove the device from the horn easily, PLUS,. you can take this design one step further, and replace the steel rod and pivot with a plastic sphere and a hollow aluminum tube. This makes everything lighter, and you don't have that heavy solid steel rod threatening your slide any more. At this point, you've essentially replaced all the parts of the original ergobone.

I do like the spring and the adjustable collar that aren't pictured. I also like the extendable pole.

Below is a second view of the attachment to the lower cork barrel and brace. The nut connecting the bell and slide is on the right, just for reference.

These parts can be 3D printed. I used my Kanstul 1662i for the reference dimensions. Might require a couple winds of electrical tape to make this design fit your horn. If you want the data to 3D print your own, just let me know.

[Bonearzt]

That looks very interesting!!

I've always questioned the use & effectiveness of the spring. Mine doesn't have one and seems to work for me just fine.

Great job!!!

Eric

[Kbiggs]

Cool!

[2bobone]

Compliments are due to Hyperbolica for his creative ideas to improve the ErgoBone ! CAD design is a marvel !
I once wrote to Juoko Antare, the designer of the original "ErgoBone" and mentioned that I found it preferable to remove the spring from the support rod that connects to the harness and he said that users are almost equally divided on the merits of keeping or removing the spring. I've always found that motion both up and down and side to side were easily managed with the original design and that the machining of the clamp has a self-limiting feature that keeps the steel rod from impinging on the slide when at rest. I have clamps on my devices made of both metal and plastic. I clamp the device to the instrument so tightly that I can easily remove both hands from it when in a playing position and it will stay in place supported only by the rod which is seated in the socket of the harness. Additionally, I usually need only rotate the device slightly to allow the slide [with device mounted] to fit into my case. I'm not saying that improvements couldn't be made, but I never saw the need for any after many years of use and owing several iterations of the device. Still -------------

[hyperbolica]

Interesting to hear how people feel about the spring. I like it. It just allows a little more flexibility in motion.

I've mentioned it a couple of times, but I don't think many people know about it. Does anyone else have the ergobone extension? I don't like the chest harness because its symmetrical but the trombone is not. The chair support doesn't work for "not-skinny" people (falls off the chair). The extension works if you are seated or standing. Very cool.

[Burgerbob]

I've met him and talked to him about my quibbles in person. He's not very interested in changing it because he doesn't have those problems.

Interestingly, I am a skinny dude and I can't use the harness either.

[hyperbolica]

As a follow up, I had a couple of these printed from the CAD files shown in the screen capture above, and it works pretty well. It might benefit from a velcro strap, but that's much better than removing the big heavy bell-denting nut (which you should probably replace with a less obtrusive wing nut).

If you're interested in printing one yourself, here are the stl files: http://dezignstuff.com/bones/ergobone/ergobone.zip

You use it with the existing screw, it just clamps over the big metal piece with pins. It kind of doubles as a gusset grip. Plus, it gets the mechanism out of the way of your second lever on a bass.

[timothy42b]

With a minor modification, this looks like it would work with Ken's cantilever support design.

I built one of those, but the attachment to the horn was problematic. The only solution I came up with was a conduit clamp, and while it worked it was a pain to put on and off, and wouldn't fit in the case. Also, on one of my horns I thought the pressure affected slide motion, and I was afraid of damage.

I really hoped to use it on my valve trombone which is basically unholdable, but there seemed no way to attach it without damaging that thin tubing.

I'm curious about which 3D printer you used. I haven't made that purchase yet. The guy who built the 3D serpent over on TubeNet used an Ender 3 at about $200, so they are now affordable.

[hyperbolica]

I actually do mechanical design work for a doctor who produces intralaryngeal airways among other things, and he has a printer, and printed out a few for me. I'm sure his is nicer than an $200 printer. He also did some parts from a tougher material, but I haven't had any problems with this stuff breaking, although I think if you tightened down the screw you could bust some parts.

I made this because I didn't like the way the original Ergobone parts attach to the horn, especially basses.

[timothy42b]

Starting a new thread.

[silverslideman]

Late to this party, as I’m new to Ergobone. Hyperbolica, your printed clamp looks great. Can I buy a couple of those from you? (In fact different coloured ones would be great. I switch horns a lot.)
Thanks in advance, Dave

[harrisonreed]

I don't use these, but that does look like a very good design. And one that could evolve if people started using it and giving feedback. Very surprising that you're making it free. But that is cool too.

[andym]

I’m late to the party too. About the extension. I think I have it but haven’t used it for a long while. I was, however, one of the people that encouraged him to make the extension. I actually performEd the Grondahl using a piece of electrical conduit to make a fixed standing extension. I definitely liked that. I didn’t use it sitting much. I never liked the harness.

I do like the 3D printed parts. Being able to take it on and off quickly would be nice. Good job.

[hyperbolica]

I've got 3 or 4 of these printed. They really need a velcro strap to secure them to the horn, and one of the spherical bearing pieces needs to be trimmed back to allow the full range of motion. I use mine. It's clamped to my bass all the time, but the screw doesn't clamp it, only the velcro holds it on, so there's less potential for damage.

[silverslideman]

Thanks for the opportunity to try this. I’ve had a set made up, but it isn’t working for me. Without a velcro strap, the weight of the horn (TR181) pulls it off the connector, & I reckon adding a strap would make the whole thing as cumbersome as Jouko’s original, & so defeat the object. Mine is made of “ABS+” (only a name to me). Maybe something harder would help eg would polycarbonate have enough spring to get it on & off the horn?

[BGuttman]

ABS is pretty firm by itself. Maybe if the piece was printed with a thicker clamp it might work better for you. If I were molding it I'd probably encase a steel plate to add strength, but that's not an option with 3D printing (at least now).