Upper range limit - how much patience do I need?

[henrikbe]

Hi,

I'm 42 years old, and took up trombone playing again a couple of years ago after 20 years of not playing. I think I'm doing fine, I'm getting compliments on my tone and intonation, but my high range doesn't seem to improve at all. I rarely get more than 15-20 minutes practice time a day, so I understand that I can't expect super high range, but I'm still a bit disappointed with my (lack of) progress in that area. My ambition is to be able to play at least to Bb4, or maybe B natural or C5. Right now my playable range goes up to a G4, and the highest note I can squeak is a D5 (which only happens occasionally, but I can always squeak a C#5). During the last 12 months I think I've gained a half tone (a year ago I could play F#4 with performance-level confidence, and sqeak a C#5). I do almost exclusively long tones and lip slurs when I practice.

So, my question for you is: IF I were doing everything 100% correct, with correct technique, maximally efficient practice etc, but only practice for 15 minutes a day, how long should it take me to achieve a playable range up to, say, Bb4? One year? Five years? Ten years?

I realize this is of course an impossible question to answer in general, but I'm getting impatient here, and I need to hear if it's just me doing something fundamentally wrong (if you guys say it shouldn't take me more than a year to reach that range), or if I just need to carry on and keep practicing like I do for another 10 years...

BTW I have taken a couple of lessons about a year ago, with a pro teacher. He said I was doing just fine. I've been planning to have another lesson soon, if I can only find some available time.

[BGuttman]

If you have only 15-20 minutes per day, spend a lot of it with teh Remington "Warmup" exercises. There is something for every aspect of your playing in them. I direct you to an exercise called "Security in the Upper Register" which will help you increase your range. When you take your next lesson, ask your teacher to explain how to do proper rangebuilding.

[Doug Elliott]

First of all stop doing long tones. With only 15 minutes of practice there are much more effective ways to spend your time.
Work on high range softly, not loud, and while you're relatively fresh. Which, in 15 minutes of practice, is... Oh, never mind.
Try to spend one or two days a week playing more. 15 minutes twice a day, or 30-45 minutes straight. With 100% correct practice it should be possible to progress some on 15 minutes a day, but technique is always an unaswered question without seeing you play.

[afugate]

A lesson with Doug and/or a competent local teacher to confirm you're approaching the upper register correctly would be time and money well spent.

It is very possible to sound good but play in a manner that makes it difficult to progress.

--Andy in OKC

[Bach5G]

Great question.

When I was young, high range seemed to be simply a matter of building strength through practicing.

Now, many years later, it seems to require a subtle combination of embouchure, tongue position, and air. Practicing the right things the right way. For me, lessons with R Sauer and Mr. E, as well as the MRI videos with D Yeo and a video interview with Dick Nash seemed to sort me out as far as understanding what I needed to do. Then some correct practice.

And then there’s gear ...

[AndrewMeronek]

I'm lucky enough to be able to play (on occasion) with a few of the best lead trumpet players in the world. One can learn a lot just by paying attention to them. As far as being able to play high and loud, one thing is consistent with all of them: they practice playing high and loud, a lot. There isn't really a magic bullet of other kinds of practice you can really do to achieve being able to play high and loud. As a general rule, if you have something you want to improve, you have to practice exactly that. The hard part is asking the right questions.

[timothy42b]

Can you add time in the morning? I found my evening time not only limited but often preempted by something considered more important by family, etc. I get up and play before work every day. As the only one up, there's no competition for my time.

I still try to play some in the evening, and succeed maybe half the time. But I've done the basics in the morning for sure.

Getting my face to wake up in the morning was an adjustment that took a long time. But it eventually came.

[Doug Elliott]

You will reach a high range ceiling very quickly by playing high and loud. The way to gain range is high and soft. THEN add volume

[AndrewMeronek]

You will reach a high range ceiling very quickly by playing high and loud. The way to gain range is high and soft. THEN add volume

To be clear, I didn't mean to advocate *only* practicing high and loud. Said trumpet players are the best because they're good at everything and they practice everything. "High and loud" I meant just to be an example of a goal.

[Doug Elliott]

"Said trumpet players" are also playing a lot more than 15 minutes a day.

It's very possible to progress with limited practice time if you know what to do and how to do it.

And what not to do.

[imsevimse]

I think 15-20 minutes is very short to be able to do the progress you want. I think we need more after we reach a certain level.

For me who has played since I was 12 and for several hours a day and worked as both a musician and teacher the 15-20 minutes a day is not enough to make progress. It might for a shorter period due, and be enough to not loose my high range, but my endurance would suffer a lot. I doubt I could make progress in my highest squeek register if I did not play anything more than a single 15-20 minutes session.

If I played in a band and had gigs each day, several times/hours a week then it might be enough to just touch the subject "high notes" and I might even settle with less but not without this continuity.

To make progress beyond a certain level with only 15-20 minutes a day is something I would not expect for myself and I think especially expansion of range practice need endurance. Endurance comes from playing a lot, and only from a lot of correct playing.

/Tom

[hyperbolica]

Yeah, it's hard to do much in 15 minutes. Scales, patterns and mostly intervals have been helpful for me. Also you probably should start by making sure your embouchure is right before you get too far in. If it's messed up, you might be making things harder for yourself in the long run.

The biggest benefit for me in range extension has been freebuzzing. I only do it for a minute or two at a time, but for me it has helped focus and strengthen the embouchure. Interval studies help you hear the notes before you play them, which is also very important.

There is also no substitute for just playing melodies in the upper range. High notes don't do you any good if you can't play them in context. So play melodies, and transpose them up a step or use clefs to transpose them higher and higher. How ever you choose to do that, playing high notes in a musical context is very important.

[Bach5G]

David Vining:

http://www.mountainpeakmusic.com/ranges ... -trombone/

[henrikbe]

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions, I'm sure they will help me improve my (limited) practice efficiency.

However, I note that noone actually answered my question (how long it should take to develop range) directly (which is not unexpected, since the question is probably impossible to answer). But since so many of you offered suggestions on what I can improve, I take that as a strong indicator that my range development is slower than it could be, and that the time needed to increase range from G4 to Bb4 is likely to be closer to one year than five or ten. Correct?

[Matt K]

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions, I'm sure they will help me improve my (limited) practice efficiency.

However, I note that noone actually answered my question (how long it should take to develop range) directly (which is not unexpected, since the question is probably impossible to answer). But since so many of you offered suggestions on what I can improve, I take that as a strong indicator that my range development is slower than it could be, and that the time needed to increase range from G4 to Bb4 is likely to be closer to one year than five or ten. Correct?

It's not necessarily a matter of time, it's a matter of 'are you doing it the right way' which is going to vary from person to person, and sometimes wildly depending on individual physiology. It's not something that you can really convey in text. I spent years practising multiple hours per day in college. Then suddenly I have a lesson with Doug and added nearly an octave to my range that day. I can put the horn down for 2-3 weeks, which I do occasionally have to do and then come back and have exactly the same range which is up to an altissimo Bb usually. The endurance suffers from that, but it isn't purely a matter of strength to be able to hit those notes.

In other words, it isn't a matter of "If you do this for 47.5 minutes a day for the next 3 years, you will have a Bb". It could be tomorrow or it could be never too, which is about as extreme a range as it gets.

[timothy42b]

I take that as a strong indicator that my range development is slower than it could be, and that the time needed to increase range from G4 to Bb4 is likely to be closer to one year than five or ten. Correct?

Closer to 6 months in my opinion.

[SaigonSlide]

Personally, it takes me a long time because I don't put in as much face time as needed. It's a slow process, and one that evolves rather than changes in leaps. I think free-buzzing, note bending, and Caruso type stuff has helped me a lot.

[henrikbe]

Work on high range softly, not loud

Thanks! I followed this suggestion (up until now, I've always practiced my high range loud, since it seems to come easier if I blow harder), for a few minutes every day the last three days, playing soft lip slurs up to Bb4, and the occasional B4 and C5. It might just be in my mind, but I think I already feel a slight improvement, the upper tones seem to come slightly easier. There's still a long way to go before the Bb4 is stable and secure, but I think I'm at least making progress now.

And today, just to see how far up I could push it, I was able to play a D5, sustain it, and even gliss up to a (barely detectable) Eb5, which is higher than I've ever played. It did not sound good, it was just a squeak, and not at all relaxed, but I just wanted to see how high I could push it.

It might have been a coincidence, or it might have been your suggestion of playing softly, I don't know. But anyway I'm happy to see some progress again. Thank you!

Henrik

[Bach5G]

I recall a week at music camp during which I practiced my high range several times over the course of each day. By the end of the camp my high range had significantly improved.

[brtnats]

Your range building is totally in line with the amount you’re practicing. If you want more/better/easier, you need to find a way to practice more. A practice mute might be very useful, as the added backpressure can help with high register development.

But really, at 15-20 minutes a day, I wouldn’t expect that much. It sometimes takes me 15 minutes to dial in my body and start playing *well* on any given day.

[harrisonreed]

The videos of Sarah Willis in the MRI helped me a lot with consistency up there.

[Pre59]

OP, Are you making any change to the lip/mouthpiece angle as you go past high Bb? Try aiming the air higher up the m/p, or slightly change the m/p angle to the same effect.
If I don't do that, I can hardly play with any security past a high C, but with that change the higher register opens out.
IMO the really high range is more about technique and "poise" not so much about lip strength, but there is a stamina component of course.

[VJOFan]

Your situation is pretty much mine.

When I am doing a practice block before an expected performance I usually only have about that 15 to 20 minutes a day you mention. The first couple days suck in terms of muscles but soon it is more a matter of trying to improve my technique and facility.

FWIW here is my routine: I have a variety of buzzing (off and on) I do to set up or re-establish my embouchure. What I do exactly, changes depending on how my fave responds. Next, I don't know if I do it exactly right but I find the Cariso six notes does give me a good feeling going forward. After that I take myself a page or so a day through, first, the Charles Colin Lip Flexibilities (My range gets connected and expanded progressively.) and , second, the O. Blume studies. I hit a lot of keys, articulation and dynamics over the course of the book.

If I have time after that I like to dip into my drawer of music and either lucky dip a piece of repertoire or do a best of old recital programs.

[Namibiantrombone]

I’m also little over 40 and plays now about 3 years. I initially experienced headaches when I started. However I picked up a the trumpet, mostly to also transcribe treble clef music whilst improving sight reading. I’m not quite good with trumpet. But it helped my trombone high notes tremendously. For me it seems to o be the correct technique I use in trumpet (slightly folded in upper lip fast air through small whole). I can reliably play up to a lot through out performance, while I can also reach d. However that is if I remember how to even in heat of performance.