TromboneChat

I picked up this Bach Corporation 42B a few weeks ago and brought it to the shop. The shop did a great job removing the lacquer, polishing it up, knocking out a few small dents, fixing the water key, etc. and I was psyched to pick it up today. Unfortunately, the valve is pretty leaky. The tech spent a lot of time on it, added some heavier oil, etc... and it didn’t seem to make a difference - I think the valve is toast. There’s a lot of play between the valve and the casing. I hadn’t played it before I dropped it off because the slide had a small ding, the water key was gone, etc... my mistake.

What are my options? Replace with a new valve, possibly convert to something else? I’m not sure if I want to do either of those things and may just sell it to recoup my investment. It’s definitely a horn worth saving and it’s in amazing shape otherwise. Thoughts/estimates welcome - if I did convert to a different type of valve (Thayer - is that possible?), what would that potentially cost?

Thanks all for any thoughts!

EDIT: the shop said if they could get a new rotor from Bach, it would run ~$700 for the rotor + install. He also said I could be on the look out for an old horn with a good rotor that we could swap in, but I worry that I wouldn’t be in a position to evaluate what is a “good” rotor that we could potentially swap in.

Hm I would contact long island brass. He has some spare Rotax valves lying around and seems to be pretty good at doing such jobs.

There are Axial and Hagmann conversion kits available (valve plus tubing) and it will cost circa $1200 for a full installation.

It's possible to plate up the rotor, but ti still will cost a couple of hundred dollars (but the low hundreds).

The bearing could be swedged on the rotor. Just saved a 50 rotor this way.

Instrument innovations also has Blessing rotors that are the same dimensions and will basically be plug and play (as far as replacing a valve).

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:55 pm There are Axial and Hagmann conversion kits available (valve plus tubing) and it will cost circa $1200 for a full installation.

It's possible to plate up the rotor, but ti still will cost a couple of hundred dollars (but the low hundreds).

Who sells those types of conversion kits? That’s probably beyond what I want to spend, but maybe not, we’ll see.

cozzagiorgi wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:14 pm Hm I would contact long island brass. He has some spare Rotax valves lying around and seems to be pretty good at doing such jobs.

I will, thank you!

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:09 pm The bearing could be swedged on the rotor. Just saved a 50 rotor this way.

Instrument innovations also has Blessing rotors that are the same dimensions and will basically be plug and play (as far as replacing a valve).

Thanks for the tip, I had not heard of them before.

Instrument Innovations makes great stuff. I think their own rotary valve designs run $195 for just the rotors. Their Axial Flow valves are also very nice as well, and definitely more economical than Shires or Edwards. They seem to be much more of a machine shop setup, which would allow for less overhead due to higher volume.

Rebuilding the rotor would be less than $700.

First step would be to plate the rotor and re-fit. That will take care of the leaks and not cost a huge amount of money. "Then" you can look at replacing parts if it doesn't play the way you want.

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:23 pm First step would be to plate the rotor and re-fit. That will take care of the leaks and not cost a huge amount of money. "Then" you can look at replacing parts if it doesn't play the way you want.

Thank you. My tech mentioned that possibility but didn’t seem excited about pursuing it for some reason (must be something he was seeing). That being said, ballpark, what would that cost?

Just FYI I think others have mentioned this, but the Instrument Innovations rotary + Corp. Bach 42 is an AMAZING combination!

Eric Edwards has done a couple of these at least... one came through my hands with the original closed wrap, and played incredible. Eric also works some magic with the brace placement that helps the response quite a bit.

paulyg wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:39 pm Just FYI I think others have mentioned this, but the Instrument Innovations rotary + Corp. Bach 42 is an AMAZING combination!

Eric Edwards has done a couple of these at least... one came through my hands with the original closed wrap, and played incredible. Eric also works some magic with the brace placement that helps the response quite a bit.

Thank you Sir!!


Eric

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:04 am

paulyg wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:39 pm Just FYI I think others have mentioned this, but the Instrument Innovations rotary + Corp. Bach 42 is an AMAZING combination!

Eric Edwards has done a couple of these at least... one came through my hands with the original closed wrap, and played incredible. Eric also works some magic with the brace placement that helps the response quite a bit.

Thank you Sir!!


Eric

Eric - I sent you an email this morning, please let me know if you didn’t receive.

And thanks for the recommendations everyone - I’m leaning toward getting a new valve and fixing the horn, but we’ll see.

thatme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:11 am

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:04 am Thank you Sir!!
Eric

Eric - I sent you an email this morning, please let me know if you didn’t receive.
And thanks for the recommendations everyone - I’m leaning toward getting a new valve and fixing the horn, but we’ll see.

Yes Sir I did

Me? I would get a Rotax or Innovations rotor and have Eric Edwards do the work.

Eric Edwards advised me to install the Instrument Innovations Rotary on my 42B, and both my tech here in Spain (he is also a trombone player) and me we're very pleased with the quality of the valve and how it works/sounds.

Thanks for your help and advice every time I have needed you, amigo Eric!

Gracias Amigos!!!!!!

Hagmann kit can be ordered from Hagmann. That valve is a really great fit for a 42. But it is super pricey and it means changing the whole wrap (and making it open wrapped). It would open up the response and brighten the sound a bit, which can or not be an improvement depending on how it plays a is. If it plays exactly the way you want now, you're probably better with a cheaper option that preserves the original wrap.