TromboneChat

Hi.

I use the new Silent Brass mute a lot, but the wires bug me. Has anyone been successful in making it cordless? What did you use?

The earphones might be replaced with Bluetooth using a Bluetooth transmitter on the box, but maybe not the mute. I wondered if one of those wireless guitar adapters would work.

Thanks

Shawn

I tried wireless earphones on a Silent Brass System once but it didn't work because of the latency [slight delay] in response of Bluetooth. It was impossible to make it work. Perhaps the guitar adapter has no such problem ? Also, I used to strap the electronics unit onto the horn itself so that the only wire you had to get tangled in was the one for the earphones. Better, but not the best.

Yeah, I use a bluetooth transmitter when I lived in my last apartment. There are a number of ones that are both receivers and transmitters. However, I didn't make the mic itself wireless, I'm not sure if that would work because of the electronics in the silent brass adapter that amplify the signal.

You'd think going wireless would be something that Yamaha would be wanting to do. Bad enough having to play with the mute in the horn without all of the dangling wires. Much prefer a simple practice mute and quiet play-along track. I didn't miss my Silent Brass when I gave it away!

Thanks for the comments. I didn't think about latency.

I might be looking for too complicated ($) a solution. I think the biggest problem is that I have my phone and the controller box on my stand so I can control the iReal Pro app, but I invariably forget that the mute is still connected and pull everything off the stand.

I will try a Bluetooth receiver on the controller to connect the phone and the controller wirelessly, then keep the controller on me with the mute wired to it. The latency would only be in the incoming audio and not the signal from the mute so it should not be noticeable.

I'll post back if I get something working OK.

Shawn

An analog system (like an FM guitar or mike system) would work best. Digital is great, except where latency can be an issue. Bluetooth is a cardinal offender in this respect.

When I use my Silent Brass mute I put the amplifier in a shirt or pant pocket and use shortened cables to it and the headphones.

The latency would only be in the incoming audio and not the signal from the mute so it should not be noticeable.

That's been my experience; I've never had any problems with using the Silent Brass and even cheap bluetooth transmitters for practicing. But I only had one receiver. I attach the mute directly to the box which attaches to my headset and a receiver. The transmitter connects to my phone. So even if there is latency, it's consistently.... latent(?)... so it isn't noticeable.

Matt K wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:41 pm

The latency would only be in the incoming audio and not the signal from the mute so it should not be noticeable.

That's been my experience; I've never had any problems with using the Silent Brass and even cheap bluetooth transmitters for practicing. But I only had one receiver. I attach the mute directly to the box which attaches to my headset and a receiver. The transmitter connects to my phone. So even if there is latency, it's consistently.... latent(?)... so it isn't noticeable.

I'm not following the logic here.

The latency comes between the mute microphone and the headphones. The source of the latency is the A/D conversion at the transmitter and then the D/A conversion at the receiver. There is some analog latency, but it is negligible (speed of electricity in copper + phase delay in circuitry - total maybe less than .1 ms). Bluetooth standards do not call for incredibly tight A/D and D/A latency as long as there is sufficient buffering and queuing to allow for audio streaming.

Of course there are some BT devices that are better (faster) than others, but in my experience the latency between a signal being produced (microphone) and being reproduced (headphone/speaker) using BT wireless can be as horrible as 1/2 second.

Hi.

I did buy a Bluetooth receiver and tried it between the iPhone and the STX box. There was no noticeable latency, as Matt mentioned, but there was another problem.

The STX box seemed to be boosting the input. There was a loud background hiss and the volume was very loud. I was not able to balance the mute and the music. It was not a pleasant experience. I tried turning up the volume on the iPhone and also turning the STX off and on to see if I could trick it into not boosting the signal, without success.

I planned on trying the older Silent Brass model, but hadn’t gotten to it yet.

Shawn

Probably something defective. Neither the old nor the new SB that I have produce hissing when connected to my phone over bluetooth or over aux cable. Well, either that or are you sure you're using the new cable with the new box or the old cable with the old box? Or maybe you plugged the input into the aux in and the in to the microphone in? I've done that before on accident.

I'm not following the logic here.

The latency comes between the mute microphone and the headphones. The source of the latency is the A/D conversion at the transmitter and then the D/A conversion at the receiver. There is some analog latency, but it is negligible (speed of electricity in copper + phase delay in circuitry - total maybe less than .1 ms).

It might be more evident if I were recording with it or something but it's quick enough that my perception doesn't pick up on the latency between the mic and the earbuds. But I think of it as more reverb anyway and it just seems like I'm playing in a really big room instead of a tight practice room which possibly is the same thing as latency.

Bluetooth standards do not call for incredibly tight A/D and D/A latency as long as there is sufficient buffering and queuing to allow for audio streaming.

Of course there are some BT devices that are better (faster) than others, but in my experience the latency between a signal being produced (microphone) and being reproduced (headphone/speaker) using BT wireless can be as horrible as 1/2 second.

Ah, yeah I don't connect to the box over bluetooth; that latency might be noticeable. I connect my phone and play drones or play-a-longs over it and it transmits to the input box. So it's consistently buffered so that the stream is uninterrupted and consistent.

Okay, got it. Thanks for the clarification Matt. Makes more sense now.

I'm super bias as I've tried a number and I go heavy on what works for me but it doesn't work for everyone, so bag of salt with anything as per usual. I'm fortunate to now be in a duplex where my neighbors don't really care if I'm reasonable with my practice. Used to live in a place where I wasn't allowed to play at all so practice mute 100%. At the end of the day, even if the experience were degraded.... so too are gigs a lot of the time. Oh, no monitor and the vocalists are ahead half a click? Fun fun fun. So long as you're confident where you're playing everything should be okay.

I remember a thread on TBF from a few years ago where someone was mentioning they didn't like playing with hearing protectors in because they couldn't hear themselves. Can't remember what the retort was from but the basic gist was, "Practice it! Sound is coming out your bell whether you hear it or not, and if you play on loud gigs w/o them you won't be able to hear in 20 years so it's a wash!" I'm not totally onboard with the sentiment, but it is very useful to be able to play by feel rather than by ear unless your gigs are super consistent and also not overwhelming. I haven't had much in the way of truly super loud gigs in awhile but when I was in college I played some Ska stuff and it was really nice to not need to rely on feedback because there was no chance I'd get any being subsumed by amplified guitar.

Thanks for all the input.

I finally got back to this and ordered a different Bluetooth receiver. It works for me. I guess all Bluetooth receivers are not created equal.

I am able to plug the receiver into the Silent Brass controller box. It picks up the audio from my phone. There is a bit of a click whenever the phone stops sending audio, but it is very workable.

Here is photo of the unit that I got from Amazon. It was one of the cheaper ones. Shawn

Shorter cables! Why didn't I think of that. Thus far I'm finding a shirt pocket is the best place for the unit.

Old discussion, but wish I'd read it first! The system is a blast to use, but the wires are a pain. I tried adding a Bluetooth transmitter and wireless ear buds but there's just too much latency. The system is best with a wired headset or ear buds. Good ear buds....

I know this is an older thread, but I didn't see any mention of the Best Brass eMute. I believe someone who used to work for Yamaha went off and designed this. It only weighs 4 oz., has 2 AA batteries inside, so no need for a power cable. You still would presumably (but not necessarily) want to run your headphones out of it, but it works just as well as my aluminum practice mute from Slidebone.com in terms of acoustic volume. My room has ambient level of 48 dB according to my smart phone and reads 70 when I use the mute. You could run a mini stereo line into it if you're playing along with something. Also has a line out jack if you need to record yourself for playing back later. I appreciate the small size and light weight, and how all the electronics and volume sliders are built right into the thing. I don't know enough about Bluetooth tech to see if you could broadcast it to your wireless headphones. I suppose you'd need some sort of unit attached to your bone and wired to the mute. I'm just going to carry on using it with headphones.

Check it out on their site if you've never seen it: https://www.bestbrass.com/stf/e-brass.html

MikeSweetsLord wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:06 pm I know this is an older thread, but I didn't see any mention of the Best Brass eMute. I believe someone who used to work for Yamaha went off and designed this. It only weighs 4 oz., has 2 AA batteries inside, so no need for a power cable. You still would presumably (but not necessarily) want to run your headphones out of it, but it works just as well as my aluminum practice mute from Slidebone.com in terms of acoustic volume. My room has ambient level of 48 dB according to my smart phone and reads 70 when I use the mute. You could run a mini stereo line into it if you're playing along with something. Also has a line out jack if you need to record yourself for playing back later. I appreciate the small size and light weight, and how all the electronics and volume sliders are built right into the thing. I don't know enough about Bluetooth tech to see if you could broadcast it to your wireless headphones. I suppose you'd need some sort of unit attached to your bone and wired to the mute. I'm just going to carry on using it with headphones.

Check it out on their site if you've never seen it: https://www.bestbrass.com/stf/e-brass.html

I know they say tenor only but do you have feedback on if it works with a bass?

from Hickey's website: NOTE: Does NOT fit bass trombone.

I really wish someone would make a lightweight mute like the new Yamaha for bass trombone. I’ve been tempted to get the French horn one but I’ve heard it causes intonation issues.

Matt K wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:35 am I’ve been tempted to get the French horn one but I’ve heard it causes intonation issues.

That's what makes it sound like a french horn...intonation issues...