Bass Trombone Sound?

[hyperbolica]

Alan Ostrander with NYP and Kauko Kahila with Boston often get overlooked when talking about the evolution of the bass bone. The equipment they used greatly affected their sound. Doug Yeo wrote about that in one of his articles.

I don't think one sound is appropriate for every situation.

[Burgerbob]

Yikes.

Anything to add? Care to chance an opinion? Surely you have a preference?

Yes, of course. I feel like a few statements here have been pretty hopelessly reductionist, referring to one, two, three players as the only ones that matter (GeOrGe RoBeRtS!?!?). That's not to say that those guys didn't sound amazing, because they did.

The bass trombone world is larger and more diverse than it has ever been. Don't limit yourselves.

[hyperbolica]

I feel like a few statements here have been pretty hopelessly reductionist, referring to one, two, three players as the only ones that matter (GeOrGe RoBeRtS!?!?). That's not to say that those guys didn't sound amazing, because they did.

The bass trombone world is larger and more diverse than it has ever been. Don't limit yourselves.

Of course, but you don't have to be encyclopeadic just to mention a couple that you think are representative.

Plus, with soloists like Roberts and Watrous on tenor, "their sound* as remembered on recordings has a lot to do with mic/recording techniques. In some ways its unrealistic to try to emulate a sound which has some non-acoustic elements (electronic/eq effects}.

One of my private trombone teachers in high school was a bass player. I think he greatly affected my sound concept although I had no desire to play bass at the time.

Max Seigel of Weather Vest is the one current player whose sound/style/technique I would most like to sound emulate. I've only heard him in chamber music setting, not big band or orchestral. I've always seen him play on vintage horns, which I tend to prefer as well.

[Burgerbob]

That's a good point. But I do have to think that the section of the bass trombone population that is posting here is pretty narrow, and the answers reflect that.

[FOSSIL]

Anything to add? Care to chance an opinion? Surely you have a preference?

Yes, of course. I feel like a few statements here have been pretty hopelessly reductionist, referring to one, two, three players as the only ones that matter (GeOrGe RoBeRtS!?!?). That's not to say that those guys didn't sound amazing, because they did.

The bass trombone world is larger and more diverse than it has ever been. Don't limit yourselves.

Now there's a thing... many many fine players out there... all a little different. What I hear in some young players is a confused sound.... a sound trying to be many things and ending up being nothing.
George Roberts mattered, and still matters because he was pretty close to perfection in what he did and how he sounded. That made him... and still makes him, an easy and good target... and one you will never quite reach. If it's not today's sound, it is at least a sound and chaseable at that.
To missuse a famous quote ' the player who is tired of George Roberts is tired of bass trombone '.

Chris

[FOSSIL]

That's a good point. But I do have to think that the section of the bass trombone population that is posting here is pretty narrow, and the answers reflect that.

It's a long time since I have been accused of being narrow, but I am trying to lose a bit of weight.
The section of the bass trombone population posting here is, was and will be narrow.... but a mass poll never solved anything.... and I write from a country where that is particularly true.
We are all entitled to our opinion, so bring it on... however singular that might be. If there are not a million of us with the same idea, so be it..... I've heard enough downright bad bass trombone playing to know that is by numbers, the default setting.
I'm off to hear the Boston Pops play film music at Tanglewood... I bet the bass sounds great... whoever it is.
Chris

[BGuttman]

...
I'm off to hear the Boston Pops play film music at Tanglewood... I bet the bass sounds great... whoever it is.
Chris

Hah! You and my wife. Hope you both enjoy the show.

[FOSSIL]

...
I'm off to hear the Boston Pops play film music at Tanglewood... I bet the bass sounds great... whoever it is.
Chris

Hah! You and my wife. Hope you both enjoy the show.

Shame you are not coming. ☹

[GBP]

That's a good point. But I do have to think that the section of the bass trombone population that is posting here is pretty narrow, and the answers reflect that.

It's a long time since I have been accused of being narrow, but I am trying to lose a bit of weight.
The section of the bass trombone population posting here is, was and will be narrow.... but a mass poll never solved anything.... and I write from a country where that is particularly true.
We are all entitled to our opinion, so bring it on... however singular that might be. If there are not a million of us with the same idea, so be it..... I've heard enough downright bad bass trombone playing to know that is by numbers, the default setting.
I'm off to hear the Boston Pops play film music at Tanglewood... I bet the bass sounds great... whoever it is.
Chris

I wonder if Markey does Tanglewood?

[GBP]

You know whose sound I really like, Randy Hawes.

[Burgerbob]

You know whose sound I really like, Randy Hawes.

Aha! A new name to the thread. And a great one.

That's a good point. But I do have to think that the section of the bass trombone population that is posting here is pretty narrow, and the answers reflect that.

It's a long time since I have been accused of being narrow, but I am trying to lose a bit of weight.
The section of the bass trombone population posting here is, was and will be narrow.... but a mass poll never solved anything.... and I write from a country where that is particularly true.
We are all entitled to our opinion, so bring it on... however singular that might be. If there are not a million of us with the same idea, so be it..... I've heard enough downright bad bass trombone playing to know that is by numbers, the default setting.
I'm off to hear the Boston Pops play film music at Tanglewood... I bet the bass sounds great... whoever it is.
Chris

Chris, it's not my intent to insult you by any means. This isn't about you in this case. You have a huge breadth of experience, both in the UK and otherwise.

There are many players here that do not (myself included) have that experience, but I do tire of hearing the same names trotted out again and again.

This isn't only a discussion between the posters, it's read by many people that will never post and would love to learn about bass trombone sound. I think George and Ray need to be in that discussion, but not as God figures above the rest of everyone as seems to happen every time this is brought up.

Here's a sound that I really enjoy by a modern player on a big horn and mouthpiece: Martin Schippers.

[DougHulme]

Burgerbob... its not that I dont know and fully appreciate the gifts and abilities of many many fine players that have come after George and Ray but if you were the first there, you automatically get recognition that wont be repeated. So Edmund Hilary is remembered as a climber because he was the first one to climb Mount Everest. Many of us will go and buy a Biro pen, when in fact its a ball point pen but Biro were there first. We use a Hoover to clean the home but it might be a Dyson or another make. The two names you get fed up of hearing were the pioneers, they set the bar and the path for others to follow. They are bound to come up time again even though sadly no longer with us... Doug

[BGuttman]

But there are others who are even older. Leroy Kenfield. Waldemar Lillebach. John Coffey. I could probably add Don Knaub as well.

I believe Roberts studied tenor and when confronted with a section of 3 stellar tenor players he decided to take the easy road and play bass.

Nobody comes out of nowhere. We (and they) stood on the shoulders of those who went before.

[Burgerbob]

But there are others who are even older. Leroy Kenfield. Waldemar Lillebach. John Coffey. I could probably add Don Knaub as well.

I believe Roberts studied tenor and when confronted with a section of 3 stellar tenor players he decided to take the easy road and play bass.

Nobody comes out of nowhere. We (and they) stood on the shoulders of those who went before.

Exactly.

[FOSSIL]

Burgerbob....it's British humour... or my attempt at it.... trying to lose weight...a joke...

Anyway.... the pops tonight... James Markey... as good an example of sound quality as you will hear anywhere. Well worth emulating.

Chris

[Burgerbob]

Of course!

And James is in a category all his own... What a monster.

[GBP]

Burgerbob....it's British humour... or my attempt at it.... trying to lose weight...a joke...

Anyway.... the pops tonight... James Markey... as good an example of sound quality as you will hear anywhere. Well worth emulating.

Chris

He also has some very good teaching videos up on YouTube.

[DougHulme]

But there are others who are even older. Leroy Kenfield. Waldemar Lillebach. John Coffey. I could probably add Don Knaub as well.

I believe Roberts studied tenor and when confronted with a section of 3 stellar tenor players he decided to take the easy road and play bass.

Nobody comes out of nowhere. We (and they) stood on the shoulders of those who went before.

You are of course quite right Bruce. Though I think Donald Knaub was more of a contemporary than a predecessor. At the risk of getting slaughtered by all the American Citizens, until I met Doug Yeo and read all his diligent research and respect he has shown for his predecessors, I hadnt heard of Leroy Kenfield, Waldermar Lillebach and John Coffey before that. Now I know I lay myself open to the criticism of being uneducated and ignorant (to which I would defend myself by saying I am but a poor Englishman who grew up in isolation from you guys on the other side).

On the other hand George Roberts is a substantial reason why I have played Bass Trombone for over 40 years, he was known and recognised the world over not just the USA.

Also I think most people would acknowledge that if it were not for George Roberts it would have been decades on before anyone started to think of the Bass Trombone as a solo instrument. George occupies a totally unique and unrivalled position in the 'hall of fame' of bass trombonists and as such deserves the pre-eminance he seems to hold in our hearts?

Also I dont think he chose the easy route on bass trombone because at the time it wasnt really an option to carve out a career on bass - he created the opportunities and made the bass into a position that others would soon follow. Phil Teal being one for instance and I love Phils playing and the world is a poorer place for losing another great player but again George was there first, he deserves the credit for that at least.

Now I'm going to be in trouble I can see it coming!!! ... Doug

[Slideorama]

Sound begins and ends with George Roberts.

[bigbandbone]

But there are others who are even older. Leroy Kenfield. Waldemar Lillebach. John Coffey. I could probably add Don Knaub as well.

I believe Roberts studied tenor and when confronted with a section of 3 stellar tenor players he decided to take the easy road and play bass.

Nobody comes out of nowhere. We (and they) stood on the shoulders of those who went before.

GR took "the easy road and played bass"!?
Those words stunned me!
Back in the 70's I worked hard and practiced a lot to develop and maintain a professionally competitive sound and technique on small bore straight horns.
Today, since I made the switch to bass, I'm working just as hard to develop the same thing on bass bone.
Nothing easy about it!

[BGuttman]

I probably should have used the word "easier" instead. Roberts was an excellent bass trombone player and is second to none.

[JohnL]

Nobody comes out of nowhere. We (and they) stood on the shoulders of those who went before.

To some extent, George DID come out of nowhere. Yes, there were plenty of excellent bass trombonists before him, but his primary inspiration came not from them, but from a tenor player (Urbie Green). He essentially created a whole new approach to playing bass trombone.

But George didn't have just one sound. Listen to him play solos on ballads and then listen to his section work. Both great sounds and pretty much ideal for the situation, but most definitely not the same sound. I think we sometimes get a little too wrapped up in listening to George's solo work and neglect his section playing.

Today, we have bass trombonists whose sound is informed (directly or indirectly) both by George and by the great symphonic players of the post-WWII era.

[imsevimse]

I probably should have used the word "easier" instead. Roberts was an excellent bass trombone player and is second to none.

It is in an interview I've read. George said himself he was in a section with Urbe Green and realized he would have to be as good as Urbie to be great. He noticed he had a better lower register than Urbie and then decided to be as good but an octave down. He asked the leader of the band if he could switch to bass. If you interpret this as taking "the easier way out" it is correct. Not the same competition on bass at that time because there was no Urbie Green there. The competitor was Bart Varselona who played tha bass forceful and loud, not at all with the finesse of a solo instrument. A hole could be filled.

There are many good bass trombone players today. Martin van den Berg for instance has a great sound. I had a crush for Ray's sound when I heard it on the Philip Jones records I bought in the late 70ies. GR I did not hear until later because my interest in jazz came later. I understand why few bass trombone players sound like that today. It is because most do not want that sound. It is not the sound they think of when they blow their horn. Then it is not the sound that comes out of the bell either. It might be the mouthpiece but after you've got your chops in order it more likely is the concept of sound. The choice of mouthpiece just makes the concept more or less easy and there are individual reasons for that.

A true full sound is not something that just happens. You have to work to get that sound and it needs to be in your head first to come out like you want it to. There are many types of ideal sounds that sound good to me.

Some may think I'm narrow because my ideal and my idols does not change. I keep returning to the sound of my idols even after I've heard some fabulous playing from someone with that big and mellow sound that is less front and more fundamental at the sides. Still each time I hear Ray or GR on record I know that's the sound I want from my horn.

/Tom

[GBP]

I can say that while GR has a great sound, I have not listened to a lot of him and would not say he is a major influence to my sound. I would say the person I study with is the major influence in how I sound.

[Bach5G]

I can say that while GR has a great sound, I have not listened to a lot of him and would not say he is a major influence to my sound. I would say the person I study with is the major influence in how I sound.

Who do you study with?

[ExZacLee]

GR I did not hear until later because my interest in jazz came later. I understand why few bass trombone players sound like that today. It is because most do not want that sound. It is not the sound they think of when they blow their horn.
/Tom

Great post, Tom

I quoted the above because I wanted to mention something about GR and why I think most don't aim towards that sound anymore. Playing like GR is difficult as hell - it requires a certain finesse and accuracy that is normally only found in small bore players. I think most bass trombone players today do not start out as small bore jazz players - some do, but most seem to be coming from a large horn, almost "classical" concept. Given the difficulty of modern bass trombone writing, it makes sense that people gravitating to that chair have an interest in specializing on large gear.

There are few modern players with the punchy-danceability of GR. One player I heard a few years ago with a friend's band in Atlanta was Major Bailey. Good lord, he was as nimble as any small bore player and could absolutely paste pedals in the most appropriately violent way. No time lag whatsoever - it was surreal hearing what he did to that poor instrument. I wish there were more like him - I absolutely love that sound and would write for it all day.

My own bass playing is, well, "enthusiastic" I guess. I don't play much bass anymore. When I did I was like a less accurate Bart V - I tried to take the "easy way out" - the easy way, it ain't.

[GBP]

There are several players I can think of that play standard equipment and are very nimble and light in their playing. David Taylor is comfortable in many musical situations and has incredible facility on the horn. James Markey is another player who has the ability to play nimble and has control of his sound. Charlie Vernon, Chris Brubeck, Bill Reichenbach. All have their own unique approach to sound. There are certainly player who struggle with facility. I think sometimes it is more of a case of poor equipment choice then poor equipment.

[DougHulme]

George never had 'punchability' and he was always economical with his use of pedal notes and when he did it was always delicate and with finesse. Georges equipment was the same as most players today same bore similar characteristics, he was still playing until a few months before his passing. This is not some historical character he is up to date and most players still strive to emulate him even if you claim you are emulating your teacher then the teacher most probably was heavily influenced by Georges playing.

Someone said they hadnt listened to George much but I bet they had without knowing it. So many film tracks - more than a thousand I believe (?) many many adverts on television, radio broadcasts, backing tracks to several main stream artists (besides Sinatra)... subliminal advertising for the bass trombone!!

Almost all the professional trombone players I know have the 'nimble' attributes described by GBP, one of the best is our very own Chris Stearn.

You cant get away with making less of Georges contribution past and present, its simply immense.

[imsevimse]

George never had 'punchability' and he was always economical with his use of pedal notes and when he did it was always delicate and with finesse. Georges equipment was the same as most players today same bore similar characteristics, he was still playing until a few months before his passing. This is not some historical character he is up to date and most players still strive to emulate him even if you claim you are emulating your teacher then the teacher most probably was heavily influenced by Georges playing.

Someone said they hadnt listened to George much but I bet they had without knowing it. So many film tracks - more than a thousand I believe (?) many many adverts on television, radio broadcasts, backing tracks to several main stream artists (besides Sinatra)... subliminal advertising for the bass trombone!!

Almost all the professional trombone players I know have the 'nimble' attributes described by GBP, one of the best is our very own Chris Stearn.

You cant get away with making less of Georges contribution past and present, its simply immense.

I think there are professional bass trombone players who do not know much about GR. The young professional players I'm thinking of are 20-30 years old and are now the next generation. They have grown up with double valved basses and GR i s older than their grandpa. They listen to the best players of today, not they who came before. There are a lot of young very good players who do not listen to anything besides them selves and contemporary players. GR is just another name to them.

/Tom

[FOSSIL]

Just to come at this from a slightly angle.. most, if not all of the finest players mentioned, played at a very high standard on tenor before switching to bass. I think this served them very well in their future careers.
I swapped to bass at age13 and with hindsight I think this was a mistake... I had to work much harder for strength and stamina over the following years and also had to reign in my hall shattering ability.
One of my greatest aids to bass trombone playing is a small tenor trombone, which I break out whenever my sound gets splashy and out of focus.... to me, the little guy is the real trombone and reminds me of what I have to do to pull the monster into shape.
Kinds words Doug, but I feel anything but nimble this morning.... I'd better lay down some notes as one of our fellow forumites is dropping by for a blether'n'blow later. I'll try and get a sound together.

Chris

[Burgerbob]

.
One of my greatest aids to bass trombone playing is a small tenor trombone, which I break out whenever my sound gets splashy and out of focus.... to me, the little guy is the real trombone and reminds me of what I have to do to pull the monster into shape.

Chris

Chris, this has been my largest improvement in years- having to improve my small tenor playing for work, and playing it about half the time I perform. I'm glad to hear it wasn't just me making that up!

[GBP]

Just to come at this from a slightly angle.. most, if not all of the finest players mentioned, played at a very high standard on tenor before switching to bass. I think this served them very well in their future careers.
I swapped to bass at age13 and with hindsight I think this was a mistake... I had to work much harder for strength and stamina over the following years and also had to reign in my hall shattering ability.
One of my greatest aids to bass trombone playing is a small tenor trombone, which I break out whenever my sound gets splashy and out of focus.... to me, the little guy is the real trombone and reminds me of what I have to do to pull the monster into shape.
Kinds words Doug, but I feel anything but nimble this morning.... I'd better lay down some notes as one of our fellow forumites is dropping by for a blether'n'blow later. I'll try and get a sound together.

Chris

I think most bass trombone players in the United States play tenor before switching to bass. Many switch in college. I know Markey was a fine tenor player. Same with Bill Reichenbach. And of course Charlie. The others I couldn’t find enough information online to say.

[BGuttman]

Sometimes the decision to go Bass has an ergonomic component. Byron McCullough was what we now call "vertically challenged" and had short arms. He couldn't reach 6th position. So bass worked great for him.

[GBP]

I did not grow up listening to big band music. Didn’t really play big band stuff until college. I grew up on Motown and R&B. I listened to a lot of Herbie, Yself, Crusaders and jazz like that. I may have heard GR in movie soundtracks, but I wasn’t listening to GR. I remember in high school playing along with. EW&F, Crusaders and Chicago albums. It is a different path for sure.

[hyperbolica]

Brian Hecht (bass bone Atlanta Symphony) gave a talk at ATW one year describing how he hit the wall with tenor while at music school, and his teacher recommended he try bass. Bass clicked for him where tenor did not.

[GBP]

You cant get away with making less of Georges contribution past and present, its simply immense.

I have expressed that I didn’t listen to a lot of George Roberts and that the biggest influence on my sound was the person I study with. I have been sitting next to this person for 18 years every week for 90 minutes. At this point in my playing, much of what is happening can best be communicated with sound. He plays a phrase than I play the phrase. I listen to him more intently than any other bass player. You seem to take this as a slight. It is just my experience. I also have 40 years of playing bass trombone. I just might know what I am talking about when referring to my own personal experiences.

[Specialk3700]

You cant get away with making less of Georges contribution past and present, its simply immense.

I have expressed that I didn’t listen to a lot of George Roberts and that the biggest influence on my sound was the person I study with. I have been sitting next to this person for 18 years every week for 90 minutes. At this point in my playing, much of what is happening can best be communicated with sound. He plays a phrase than I play the phrase. I listen to him more intently than any other bass player. You seem to take this as a slight. It is just my experience. I also have 40 years of playing bass trombone. I just might know what I am talking about when referring to my own personal experiences.

This. Nothing has affected how I imagine my sound more the person I study with. That doesn't mean I want the same thing, just I pick out what I want and don't want in my own sound.

[Basbasun]

You cant get away with making less of Georges contribution past and present, its simply immense.

I have expressed that I didn’t listen to a lot of George Roberts and that the biggest influence on my sound was the person I study with. I have been sitting next to this person for 18 years every week for 90 minutes. At this point in my playing, much of what is happening can best be communicated with sound. He plays a phrase than I play the phrase. I listen to him more intently than any other bass player. You seem to take this as a slight. It is just my experience. I also have 40 years of playing bass trombone. I just might know what I am talking about when referring to my own personal experiences.

Chanses are big that your teacher have been listening to GR as most older basstrombonists have.

[GBP]

My teacher’s biggest influence was his teacher, John Coffey and Don Harwood.

[Specialk3700]

Only on the trombone forum have I seen GR mentioned so much. Never in lesson or just talking about trombone in general. Not to say GR isn't a important figure for bass bone, he most definitely is. I just think he is being blown out of proportion. You can definitely become a fantastic bass trombonist without ever listening to GR.

[DougHulme]

Basbasun... it wasnt a personal comment to you just a general one to various contributors - sorry I didnt put it well.

This is a general comment and I may retire on this one...

George Roberts is the most influential bass trombone player in the last 100 years and did more for our cause than any other individual player has ever done. That is not to say that others havent also made huge contributions and that others are not superb players and I have many friends and players who I respect and who influence me today as well. Its just that Georges influence goes so far around our world that even when you think you have never been influenced by him - you probably have!

... Doug

[FOSSIL]

I suppose that the thing is Doug, when we heard George Roberts for the first time, he was at the peak of his career.
To the younger generation he is a dead guy, only to be accessed through recordings.... the past. They are interested in who is making a great sound today, though most people have only heard many of those they talk about on recordings (as with us and George Roberts) . There are players with gorgeous sounds out there... stand a few feet away from Bill Reichenbach and you get enveloped in velvet, Ben v D is the same.... different colour velvet but velvet just the same..... I worry about where the sound of my instrument is heading, but it will be out of my hands soon enough. I have a few ex students out there that make very special sounds so I have done my best to plant a seed or two, as have others better qualified than I. We will see....

Chris

[hyperbolica]

George Roberts gravitated toward small equipment - 9' bells, single valves. I think a lot of people are looking to validate 578 bore slides and Roberts is the antitheses to that sort of equipment choice, so there is a motivation to minimize his influence to some extent.

I'm a big fan of the smallest equipment that works. I think Roberts liked his Conn, Olds, and Kanstul horns among others that were on the small side. But Roberts was known for solo playing, not a big symphony. Context matters which I think is the one thing we're not really talking about.

[GBP]

I think even more simply, people are different and have grown up in different cultures and have different experiences. Has George Roberts impacted how the bass is played, certainly. I don’t think anyone here has said different. Has his impact been the same on every player, why would anyone think that would be true. The belief that everything has a single story is not true.

[FOSSIL]

George Roberts gravitated toward small equipment - 9' bells, single valves. I think a lot of people are looking to validate 578 bore slides and Roberts is the antitheses to that sort of equipment choice, so there is a motivation to minimize his influence to some extent.

I'm a big fan of the smallest equipment that works. I think Roberts liked his Conn, Olds, and Kanstul horns among others that were on the small side. But Roberts was known for solo playing, not a big symphony. Context matters which I think is the one thing we're not really talking about.

George Roberts made his money in the studios, much of which was basically an orchestra situation.
Equipment is overrated as a manipulator of sound.... I sound pretty much the same on any size of bass trombone and I have the whole spectrum. Sound starts in the head. I remember years ago messing around with Ben v D and swapping instruments... a Thein and a Rath... supposedly tonal opposites... we each sounded the same as always whichever insrument we played... we thought that was very amusing.

Chris

[DougHulme]

Fossil wrote... George Roberts made his money in the studios, much of which was basically an orchestra situation.
Equipment is overrated as a manipulator of sound.... I sound pretty much the same on any size of bass trombone and I have the whole spectrum. Sound starts in the head. I remember years ago messing around with Ben v D and swapping instruments... a Thein and a Rath... supposedly tonal opposites... we each sounded the same as always whichever insrument we played... we thought that was very amusing.

Chris

Chris, I couldnt agree more!... Doug

[bigbandbone]

Sound starts in the head.

Couldn't agree more! As a college student playing a straight small bore I can remember practicing with my bell pointing at a wall and mentally visualizing my sound penetrating through the wall and coming out the other side. I'm doing the same type excercise now on bass. But now I work on 2 sound concepts. One focused and edgy for big band work, a a second sound with softer edges and microphone dependent for solo work!

[hyperbolica]

George Roberts made his money in the studios, much of which was basically an orchestra situation.

Yeah, but he's best known for his solo stuff. That's where it's easiest to pick out his sound.

Equipment is overrated as a manipulator of sound.... I sound pretty much the same on any size of bass trombone and I have the whole spectrum. Sound starts in the head. I remember years ago messing around with Ben v D and swapping instruments... a Thein and a Rath... supposedly tonal opposites... we each sounded the same as always whichever insrument we played... we thought that was very amusing.

Chris

You're the one who is always talking about MV 1 1/2g, and lamenting kid's oversized mouthpiece choices, right?

What do you sound like on a french horn or tuba? I know I sound like a french horn or tuba. I have my own characteristic way of articulating and slurring, and various points of personal style, but hardware has an effect. It's more subtle when you're talking about different design aspects of the same family of instruments, but its still there. And even if all it changes is the feel, then it changes how I react to it. Plus, I'm sure very few of us have your level of command over the instrument. You may be able to make a Thein sound like an Olds P22 (or vice versa), but I know I can't, and honestly wouldn't try, I aim for the sweet spot of the instrument, as I'm more successful going with the horn's natural tendencies than trying to bend it to my tonal will.

[FOSSIL]

On French horn I simply sound dreadful.... merely not so good on tuba. Point taken. I was really talking instrument in a bass trombone sense. A good friend who posts on here said to me that with equipment, the closer to the player, the greater the influence.... mouthpiece big, leadpipe quite big, slide less so etc etc. Interesting perspective....

Chris

[SwissTbone]

A good friend who posts on here said to me that with equipment, the closer to the player, the greater the influence.... mouthpiece big, leadpipe quite big, slide less so etc etc. Interesting perspective....

Chris

Thats also my experience. Mouthpiece and leadpipe make a tremendous difference to me whereas I can barely hear and feel the difference of bell material.