TromboneChat

WilliamLang wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:45 am ...

Do people ever wonder why pros don't come here?

Actually, I don't wonder at all.

1. While every kid would love having [insert Trombone God Here] solve their problem, most aren't interested in fixing simple issues with the same platitudes. I'm sure you see it with students at your school -- a lot of us have the same problems.

2. A lot of them are REALLY busy and don't have a lot of time to spend here. Often they register and just look in to see if something interesting has popped up. Sometimes a member of their studio will drop by and post an announcement of some significant event.

3. Some of them have their own Web presence and would prefer to preside over their own turf than somebody else's. Then again, most of them aren't computer savvy or interested. Playing and teaching take preference.

I do appreciate seeing people like you here. While you may not be as well-known as Joe Alessi or Christian Lindberg, I would consider you to be professional enough.

And sorry for calling you "Bill" in another thread. I thought that's how you identified yourself to me when we played together in an ensemble a few years back.

WilliamLang wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:45 am I will speak up for people and their identities as I see fit. No alcohol was involved at any point.

Do people ever wonder why pros don't come here?

I agree with above posters, if a threat like the one Schlitz posted doesn't constitute a ban, what does?

I don't have an opinion of if these kind of threads should be on the forum or not, but if I see them on here with problematic comments I'll join in. I certainly view it as my responsibility as a teacher to speak up against parts of our community that make it less welcoming and open to them.

It has been a shame to watch fewer and fewer other professionals be on this board, especially given how active so many are on the fb groups (including most of the ones who left here). I'd imagine the lack of possibility to be anonymous in the fb groups effects it too. I still remember when someone picked a fight with Ralph Sauer on a thread that was just a straight up and down trombone subject and he left.

Hasn’t Schlitz been banned before?

Returning for a moment to harrisonreed's original post starting this thread...

Suppose a member of TromboneChat posts a comment in Tangents illustrating the perceived absurdity of an aspect of our language which is a large part of the thread being discussed and later provides evidence that is widely acknowledged as valid, and which is presented in objective terms, using textbook definitions in his comments. And suppose that several members of TC then accuse this member of “hate speech”, depicting him as hateful, and demand that the thread be locked and further suggest that he be censured and/or banned. And suppose further that another member questions the subsequent locking of the thread, after which these same accusatory members mischaracterize the comments and motivation of the member who originated the dissenting, arguably mainstream-leaning posts, once again requesting that the new questioning thread be locked as well after he corrected and clarified the misrepresentation.

Does anyone see a problem with this? Does it look as if someone who expresses a viewpoint shared by a significant portion of the populace is being repeatedly denigrated and attacked by people who have a differing viewpoint that is shared by a significantly smaller number of people for expressing this? Should the moderators accede to the protestors' wishes and discontinue the discussion? What's the value of “us vs. them”, instead of “us and them”? Why the insistence on “them with us... or else”? Where are the tolerance and inclusivity that are so often touted as being virtuous?

Schlitz has received a temporary ban for 2 weeks while moderators figure out such a policy. It might be permanent. Many of us have day jobs at the moment and I don't recall the exact way we worded the policy.

Generally speaking there's a saying in the law world that goes something to the effect of "hard cases make bad law". Basically meaning that courts establish a rpecedent but many times, edge cases are the ones that end up being adjudicated by a court. Therefore, laws may have been written without respect to the edge case and because of the way they are written, the edge case might be right which means you establish precedent or the edge case is legally in the wrong but it was in an area of law that had hitherto been addressed which causes other consequences etc. I'm not a lawyer so any lawyer would probably easily correct my arm-chair explanation there.

Point being though that setting up a precedent which preempts that might be worse than adjudicating on a case-by-case basis. Especially since musicians are generally more "progressive" than the general population. Especially since topics like that and, indeed this one, are not simply one issue but a conglomeration of several issues.

I'm glad Schlitz will be able to come back in two weeks to offer us his valuable knowledge...

Just ban the dude and get it over with.

A temporary ban is appropriate for a first offense. IMHO FWIW.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:14 pm A temporary ban is appropriate for a first offense. IMHO FWIW.

I highly, highly doubt this is Schlitz' first offense.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:28 pm

Bach5G wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:14 pm A temporary ban is appropriate for a first offense. IMHO FWIW.

I highly, highly doubt this is Schlitz' first offense.

First conviction?

In my opinion - and I've given this considerable thought -

it's not the trolls that derail these threads.

Currently for the Facebook group I delete the post if it's off-topic, I additionally turn on post approval if it's in bad form, then I block the user forever if they ever try something naughty again. Different controls, of course, but ... explanations and stern warnings are useless.

mwpfoot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:52 pm ... Different controls, of course, but ... explanations and stern warnings are useless.

Computers don't listen to explanations or stern warnings. Also, a lot of these folks use VPNs to register so they can't be blocked by IP.