Greg Black NY 5 vs Bach 4G

[GMB]

How do the GB NY 5 series compare to the Bach 4G as far as the rim shape and cup depth?

I've figured out that I really prefer the Bach 4G rim to the 5G, it's much more comfortable (possibly rounder and less sharp bite or I just have a dog of a 5G) for me and I get the sound and flexibility I need. I just wish the high range was the slightest bit easier/more secure when playing demanding solo/chamber repertoire. So I'm thinking of trying to snag a second-hand GB 5.25 or 5.5 to test out (thinking a shallower cup would help but I could be wrong), but I'm wondering if anyone has any comparisons to make, Is the rim of a similar width/profile/bite (inner diameter per specs should be a shade smaller AFAIK).

[Burgerbob]

They're pretty different in basically every way. I would just get one and try it out, there's not really any text comparisons that can help.

[Mv2541]

This^

[GMB]

I guess I'll have to call him next time I'm visiting family in NC (second-hand always seems to sell in 5 minutes). I also might ask around for custom work, any suggestions for someone in Europe? Windhager in Austria?

[NordicTrombone]

Check with Josef Klier in Germany. They do really great work!

[harrisonreed]

How do the GB NY 5 series compare to the Bach 4G as far as the rim shape and cup depth?

I've figured out that I really prefer the Bach 4G rim to the 5G, it's much more comfortable (possibly rounder and less sharp bite or I just have a dog of a 5G) for me and I get the sound and flexibility I need. I just wish the high range was the slightest bit easier/more secure when playing demanding solo/chamber repertoire. So I'm thinking of trying to snag a second-hand GB 5.25 or 5.5 to test out (thinking a shallower cup would help but I could be wrong), but I'm wondering if anyone has any comparisons to make, Is the rim of a similar width/profile/bite (inner diameter per specs should be a shade smaller AFAIK).

Thinking a smaller rim is the ticket to a better upper register is not good thinking. You can use equipment to help you up there, but it's really the cup shape, depth, and throat that makes it easier or harder. A small rim might coincidentally come with the cup that makes the upper register easy, but at what expense?

[GMB]

I'm actually interested in trying the MPs because I want to see basically the effect of making my 4G cup slightly shallower, so I was asking because I was hoping the GB rim would be similar enough but with different other characteristics.

Thinking a smaller rim is the ticket to a better upper register is not good thinking. You can use equipment to help you up there, but it's really the cup shape, depth, and throat that makes it easier or harder. A small rim might coincidentally come with the cup that makes the upper register easy, but at what expense?

[Burgerbob]

The rim is very different, even if it is the same nominal size.

[davetrombizzle]

The cup volume between the NY 5 and the VB 4G is going to be remarkably different, as well as the rim shape. One way to skin this cat is to order a two piece NY 5 and just get the bottom with Elliott threads. Then get a donor 4G and get the rim cut and threaded with Elliott threads. Then you MIGHT find what you are looking for...

[jjenkins]

Another thing is that not all 4G rims are same between Bach's various periods of manufacture -- some are flat-ish and some are more rounded. Which contour does yours have?

If you really like the Bach 4G, but need a smaller cup volume, I'd also encourage you to check out Doug Elliott's LT or XT102/G/G8 setup. It will be much closer in feel (openness/resistance) to your Bach 4G, but with a greatly improved design in comparison.

[Russjones92]

I actually met and talked with Greg about the NY series last week at our Music Ed Conference this year the NY 5 is a 4G rim on a 5GS cup. The rims are definitely more comfortable than my Bach 4G or 5G (Been using a 4G for the past 7 years or so). Another option is the NY 6 it's a 5G cup with the same rim. You could also try his standard series 4G-5G long story short he makes many many phenomenal mouthpieces

[GMB]

Another thing is that not all 4G rims are same between Bach's various periods of manufacture -- some are flat-ish and some are more rounded. Which contour does yours have?

Mine's about 5 years old so I'm assuming it's the newest version. I'd say it's rounded, much more comfortable than my 5G which is a couple years older. I'm happy with how it feels and sounds, I just wish that minor third above spoke a little bit easier (though I do love that it has a very well balanced sound through the entire range of the instrument), I can't get a really solid f or e.
The more I think about this the more I'm leaning towards getting in touch with a manufacturer here in Europe that can make me some kind of combination like David suggested (not even necessarily with a GB piece). I'm almost sure I'll find what I'm looking for quicker that way.

[Jimkinkella]

not all 4G rims are same between Bach's

Also remember Bachs are notoriously inconsistent, even within the same production run.