Bass Trombone second valve tuning

[Carter1016]

Hi all,

A picture of Ed Anderson from the early 80’s or so came up in one of the FB groups, and it sparked my interested. I know he had used a Low C slide for a long time, as did Don Harwood. I was wondering if anyone else had tried that combination (Bb, F, low C), or something similar, and what the advantages were? Of course, the obvious disadvantage is weight, but anything else also?

I’ve been interested in different combinations, but not interested enough to spill the money, or the time to retrain myself to something different!

Thanks!

[Burgerbob]

Much of the reasoning behind that was the rather undersized valves of the time. Not to say that I haven't seen players with Thayers and D slides, but that's a lot of it.

Honestly, F/yourflavorofG is just about as good as it gets when it comes to having a full range and flexibility.

Low D or C really limits you in a lot of ways (C the most, of course).

[GabrielRice]

I had a low D slide built by Chuck McAlexander for my 50B3 that he had open-wrapped. It threw off the balance so much that I couldn't hold the instrument with the angle I needed to my face, and it made my normal tone production impossible.

[Carter1016]

I had a low D slide built by Chuck McAlexander for my 50B3 that he had open-wrapped. It threw off the balance so much that I couldn't hold the instrument with the angle I needed to my face, and it made my normal tone production impossible.

Did that give you a low B in 1st both triggers?

[JohnL]

I was wondering if anyone else had tried that combination (Bb, F, low C), or something similar, and what the advantages were?

As I understand it, the players who used the Bb/F/D/B and similar tunings typically didn't use both valves at once. The idea was to only blow through one valve or the other (as Burgerbob mentioned, there were some pretty small valves back then).

I've got a factory Eb/D extension for my P-24G's; tried it a couple times, but it was just uncomfortable to use.

[GabrielRice]

I had a low D slide built by Chuck McAlexander for my 50B3 that he had open-wrapped. It threw off the balance so much that I couldn't hold the instrument with the angle I needed to my face, and it made my normal tone production impossible.

Did that give you a low B in 1st both triggers?

Yes.

But I couldn't play it, because the horn was so back-heavy it cut off the vibration of my upper lip.

[whitbey]

My Bach 50 is an Bb/F/C. The second was a E. I had a C made with larger tubing. Blows very open on the 2nd valve.
It is an easy setup to play. Pedal and double pedal Bb's sound nice with both valves. And a B natural is real easy to find.

[jehrmin]

My preference was B flat, F and E flat in a dependent setup. Larry Minick built me an open wrap horn in 1974-75 from Conn 62H parts he had in his shop. It is one of the early open wrap horns. See my profile for details.

Why E flat for the second valve? My concept was to keep the horn light and balanced. I only used the second valve for low C and B, otherwise I was on the open and F side of the horn. This horn is light and well balanced and the valve moisture naturally drains to the bottom of the hand slide. The bell size is 9 1/8" and Larry built a light slide with no in-slide tuning. I never moved the main tuning slide so we left it out. Long playing days were easy with this horn.

Jim Ehrmin

[JohnL]

My preference was B flat, F and E flat in a dependent setup.

Seems that there was never any real interest in an extra long second valve (i.e., Bb/F/C or Bb/F/B) on dependent horns. I suppose we could discuss the why of that, but it would almost certainly devolve into yet another dependent vs. independent debate.

[Greg]

Mr Anderson’s use of the “C” valve began, I believe, with a Bach 50B2 dependent valve 10 1/2” bell instrument. He said there was valve/slide combination relationship between pedal B-flat (1st position), and the trigger B natural (C2), C (C1), D-flat (F5), D (F4) and the octave above B-flat (1), B natural (F2), C (F1), D-flat (5).

He continued that with his Bach 50B3 independent rotary valve instrument (Cleveland Orchestra picture), and the “monster” Bach 50B3 with the independent Thayer valves and the heavyweight 11” bell without a lead pipe he had while teaching at IU. When he played the Bartok Concerto and Manderin he would insert shorter slides to allow the glisses.

[greenbean]

As I understand it, the players who used the Bb/F/D/B and similar tunings typically didn't use both valves at once. The idea was to only blow through one valve or the other (as Burgerbob mentioned, there were some pretty small valves back then).
...

This ^. Valve have improved over the years and that is why we rarely see horns set up this way.