Denis Wick Rims

[HGrobot]

I have recently started looking at trying out a couple of the Denis Wick small bore mouthpieces as a potential replacement for my current King 7C mouthpiece. The King piece works fine but the rim is much rounder than any of the Bach mouthpieces I have previously owned.I t gets very uncomfortable for me after about a half hour of playing.
What I cannot seem to find is any description of the Denis Wick rims beyond the measurements of the cup diameter and rim width on the Denis Wick site. Any of you who plays on these have any particular thoughts on these mouthpieces? Any descriptive comparisons of the rim contour compared to Bach or Schilke pieces?
Any insights are greatly appreciated

[BGuttman]

I've played Denis Wick mouthpieces for quite a few years (now playing Doug Elliotts, though). The Wick has a rather flat rim with a noticeable "bite". It's definitely NOT like a King 7C mouthpiece.

People either love Wick rims or hate them. Never seen anybody in the middle.

If you can, try a 7CS and see if you like the way it plays. It may work for you or it may not.

[HGrobot]

Thanks for the info and the suggestion. I really appreciate it

[mrdeacon]

Yeah, what you're feeling is the "bite" that Bruce described. I love how they sound but I can't dig the rim.

Try some Bach small shank stuff. Bach 7C or 11C are always classics!

[CalgaryTbone]

It's also worth noting that the Wick 7CS has the same rim as his 6BS/6BL mouthpieces (shallower cup though), so it's a bit bigger than the Bach or Conn/King 7C. The cups are a bit more V shaped on the Wicks, and the throat and backbore are a bit more open than the others. Some people love the Wick mouthpieces, but with his small shank sizes, they are often more popular with players who primarily play larger bore instruments, and want an open-playing mouthpiece for their smaller instruments. They are well-made pieces, that play well for people that play with a big airstream.

Jim Scott

[Pre59]

I've played a DW 9BS on and off over decades on a small bore horn, but am now experimenting with some Josef Klier pieces. The main issue that I have with Wicks is not the rim, which is on the flat side, it's that the smaller models have little in common with each other in the way that they play. The 9BS has a much more open backbore than the 10Cs or 7CS and plays bigger IMO.
Each one is a piece unto itself, made for a specific purpose (?), unlike say the JK range where the width and depth is selectable and the throat and backbore increase with the cup depth. Of course with this system, there are going to be outliers, pieces that rarely get used.
If you try a DW and it really works for you, that's great. But if you want an incremental change I wouldn't go down that route.
I've bought three JK pieces so far and they're all usable, one in particular hits the spot, and overall the cost has been less than going down a modular route.

8E, 8D, 7E, and I might go with a 7D if I start using my 3B again.

http://josefklier.de/mouthpieces/trombone/?lang=en

[mrdeacon]

It's also worth noting that the Wick 7CS has the same rim as his 6BS/6BL mouthpieces (shallower cup though), so it's a bit bigger than the Bach or Conn/King 7C. The cups are a bit more V shaped on the Wicks, and the throat and backbore are a bit more open than the others. Some people love the Wick mouthpieces, but with his small shank sizes, they are often more popular with players who primarily play larger bore instruments, and want an open-playing mouthpiece for their smaller instruments. They are well-made pieces, that play well for people that play with a big airstream.

Jim Scott

Weren't the 6 and 7 series stuff originally designed to be British Baritone horn pieces? I always thought those two were on the big side for small tenor stuff.

[CalgaryTbone]

I remember reading that Wick designed the 7CS for use in a Bach Bass Trumpet - shallow enough to give a more trumpet-like sound, and open enough to balance the stuffiness of the Bass Trumpet. That would also be comfortable for someone doubling on that instrument who normally played a large bore tenor with a 4 or 5 sized mouthpiece. I think the 6BS was more for a .525 bore. I'm pretty sure Per Brevig used that on an old medium-sized Conn that he played at the Met, and then the large shank version when he started using an 88H. I think the 9 series was popular on small bore baritones.

Jim Scott

[Burgerbob]

I have a 6BS. On a .500 it's very dull and doesn't center very well. It may have worked in my 36, I didn't try it.

[HGrobot]

Try some Bach small shank stuff. Bach 7C or 11C are always classics!

I used to use a Bach 7C on my small bore. It ended up needing replacing and I already had the King mouthpiece so figured I'd just give that a go. So I'm definitely looking at these and a couple Yamaha and Schilke mouthpieces that are readily available at my local shops as well. I just figure that I may as well try out a few new things while I'm at it too.

The main issue that I have with Wicks is not the rim, which is on the flat side, it's that the smaller models have little in common with each other in the way that they play. The 9BS has a much more open backbore than the 10Cs or 7CS and plays bigger IMO.
http://josefklier.de/mouthpieces/trombone/?lang=en

I noticed some of that while I was looking through the spec sheets. Definitely something to keep in mind as I'm looking at these The Josef Klier mouthpieces definitely sound interesting, but look to be a bit difficult for me to get a hold of right now. I will definitely keep an eye for those though.

[Kingfan]

Just 'cause "everybody" says X mouthpieces work with Y horn isn't always the case. They forget factor Z, the player! I play a DE combo similar to a Bach 5 on my King 2B and 3B. That said, I've got a gold plated Denis Wick 5BS clone you are welcome to test drive if you pay shipping both ways. Looks like a deeper cup and narrower throat than my Bach 5GS which I would also let you test drive. Both have pretty flat rims. If you like either one, I would happy to sell it to you at a very fair price.

[Pre59]

I noticed some of that while I was looking through the spec sheets. Definitely something to keep in mind as I'm looking at these The Josef Klier mouthpieces definitely sound interesting, but look to be a bit difficult for me to get a hold of right now. I will definitely keep an eye for those though.

But there are many other makers who do make pieces in a "XY" format in the USA/Canada. The small Wicks are just what they are, they either work or they don't, in short there's no wiggle room..

[SirJohn]

You could always give an old Conn 3 a try as another alternative. Sort of like a Bach 6 3/4c with a slightly more open throat. Usually they are pretty cheap to try.

[Posaunus]

You could always give an old Conn 3 a try as another alternative. Sort of like a Bach 6 3/4c with a slightly more open throat. Usually they are pretty cheap to try.

Good suggestion.

The Conn 3 is also similar to the Denis Wick 9BS, but with a different shaped rim - also more sharp-edged than a Bach.

[HGrobot]

Quick update
I had to shelve this project for a few weeks, but I got my hands on a Wick 5BS to play test at one of my local shops today. I can definitely see why people like them. I was able to get much fuller sound on my 3B than I could with my old Bach 7C or my current king piece. The rim however is definitely not for me. It's just a little too sharp on the inner bite for me and I feel like it's physically impeding my embouchure. Back to the drawing board I guess.

[Kevbach33]

I understand the "locked in" feeling when playing my Wick 1AL. However, when I'm off the bass trombone for a while, that feel can help when I pick it up again. Different methods for different folks, i guess? Perhaps I'm that one person who neither hates nor loves the rim shape, but views it with a purpose in mind??

Not to mention the 1AL is supposed to be similar in size to a Schilke 58, my main bass piece.