Symington London 1.5

[Savio]

Aaahhh I got my new mouthpiece today, a Symington London 1.5.

Made by William Symington and I have to say thanks a lot to him because he was so patient and kind to me!!
Its a beautiful looking mouthpiece and my heart beat very fast when I open the brand new mouthpiece today. And playing it? Its superb!!! I give you a little taste in a link under here. Im at home and preparing pink panther for one of my kids in music school so it has to be that one:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnFhNyFesmcYhZtwgiJOCE5gAvv5iA

Anyway, First try and it feels familiar to my Mt Vernon! More comfortable rim, more comfortable to play. I can feel it is a Mt Vernon. Not so strange since maybe Chris had a touch to it? Easier to play pedals, my good its was rumbling down there on my 60h! Sound? about the same as Mt Vernon but maybe a slighter darker touch to it. Well, my conclusion is clear, even I have played only one litte tune on it. This one will stay on my trombone, but I dont sell my Mt Vernon!

This is a blessing to us in the 1.5 size world, just saying!
Again a big thanks to the master William and also to Chris!

Ok, have to go and play, my heart is still beating like h...! Have to calm down a little.. it wasn't a surprise but...ok have to go and play now...

Leif

[Posaunus]

Wow! Nice work, Leif. Keep playing until you drop!

[harrisonreed]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Symington

?

[mrdeacon]

Leif did you get the brass or the ZR one?

I've been loving my brass 1.5 and Bill is a pleasure to deal with!

I sent Bill the MV 2G I got from Joe Stanko so hopefully, very soon Bill is also going to be making 2Gs also!

[islander]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Symington

?

Er, that William Symington had more hair than I do. Yes, a 2G shouldn't be too far away now.

Bill

[harrisonreed]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Symington

?

Er, that William Symington had more hair than I do. Yes, a 2G shouldn't be too far away now.

Bill

I was trying to find your site, or info about what you make and that's all I could find. Do you have a website?

[mrdeacon]

Er, that William Symington had more hair than I do. Yes, a 2G shouldn't be too far away now.

Bill

I was trying to find your site, or info about what you make and that's all I could find. Do you have a website?

For extracurricular stuff... If you dig through the Bass Trombone Appreciation Society group on facebook you'll bump into a couple of topics and posts talking about and showing pictures of the mouthpieces. There's also a pretty large thread here somewhere where Chris in particular talks about the 1.5.

[sf105]

I have a brass one which works wonderfully well with my 70H. It's based on an old Bach shank which doesn't fit, for example, my DuoGravis. Bill was telling me about the effects of Zirconium which, apparently, needs to be heard in a hall rather than a practice room, so maybe I'll experiment during his next manufacturing round.

[islander]

Er, that William Symington had more hair than I do. Yes, a 2G shouldn't be too far away now.

Bill

I was trying to find your site, or info about what you make and that's all I could find. Do you have a website?

No website yet, as it would only show the one mouthpiece
model that I have produced so far! Albeit I have made it in brass and zirconium. Working from a very nice Mount Vernon with a Conn shank of Chris Stearn's, and which he helped model a nice rim, it's an interpretation of a Mt Vernon, really. I have just recently produced a few examples with a standard Morse taper shank in brass.

But a 2G is the imminent project, as Philip mentions.

Bill

[blast]

They have worked out well. I use both the brass and the ZR versions. One less thing to worry about.

Chris

[Tbarh]

Still very happy with my specimen... A little more mixed emotions about the man behind the piece, but at least i am working on it..

[blast]

Still very happy with my specimen... A little more mixed emotions about the man behind the piece, but at least i am working on it..

What do you mean ?

Chris

[Bach5G]

Isn't Tbarh talking about himself, as in the mpc is fine, but he has questions about the player, ie. himself?

[islander]

Haha...having had many interactions with Trond, I'm sure he's being self-effacing.

[Tbarh]

Still very happy with my specimen... A little more mixed emotions about the man behind the piece, but at least i am working on it..

What do you mean ?

Chris

Hah, i am of course talking about myself... The mouthpiece are Great, but me, i am not quite there yet.. Still, a lot of things has gotten much easier because of the concistency and sound of this mouthpiece...

[blast]

Ah ! sorry... it was late at night ...
I thought you were talking about Bill and his lack of a website !! This is not the normal mouthpiece making situation.... Bill is on a mission and using a CNC lathe shop to produce his ideas. When he got in touch and sent me a couple of copies of mouthpieces, I thought he was seriously keen, so sent him a MV Bach 1 1/2G to copy. I had to re-work that original Symington rim that was produced as the shop made a mess of it, but when adjusted it was a fine mouthpiece.... that is the brass one that I still use. I suppose I could have done this myself, but I never have as life tends to get in the way, so all credit to Bill for actually making this happen.

Chris

[islander]

Ah ! sorry... it was late at night ...
I thought you were talking about Bill and his lack of a website !! This is not the normal mouthpiece making situation.... Bill is on a mission and using a CNC lathe shop to produce his ideas. When he got in touch and sent me a couple of copies of mouthpieces, I thought he was seriously keen, so sent him a MV Bach 1 1/2G to copy. I had to re-work that original Symington rim that was produced as the shop made a mess of it, but when adjusted it was a fine mouthpiece.... that is the brass one that I still use. I suppose I could have done this myself, but I never have as life tends to get in the way, so all credit to Bill for actually making this happen.

Chris

Quite so Chris, and actually the whole thing was born out of idle curiosity about whether zirconium is a good material for a trombone mouthpiece. Seems it is, given the right design for it. Anyway, Chris' contribution to the design is huge. As the engineering guys told me, modelling asymmetric curves (the rim) is not terribly easy, and the whole thing has been a learning experience for almost everybody, particularly me. It isn't a business, more an illness.

Photo of some zirconium pieces: https://www.dropbox.com/s/165g7j330164c ... 1.jpg?dl=0

[blast]

More an illness..... love it !!!!!!!

Chris

[Savio]

I played it the hole day in a band. It works nice and feels nice. The rim is a little rounder I think? Compared to the Mt Vernon. Isn’t it so Chris? I thought I liked sharp rims but this one is much more comfortable. Especially after a long day. And it is a little deeper than my Mt Vernon. Anyway, I have calmed down after the first love yesterday and try to be more objective.
There is more focus on the bigger mouthpieces today and I am so glad Bill and Chris have put their effort in this mouthpiece! Not to say other makers don’t but this is finally something new in that area! There is of course other good alternatives out there, but this is something that will stay in our 1.5 world. Mark my words! It feels more modern than the original Mt Vernon. But remember no Mt Vernon is the same. If I should say something I feel the original is a little more flexible. The Symington is more predictable. Then I’m honest. Still I feel this is the best Mt Vernon “feel” you can get if that’s what you want.
Sorry my rambling here and hope you all understand?
Bill and Chris; thanks a lot!!!

Regards from Leif

[harrisonreed]

There is more focus on the bigger mouthpieces today and I am so glad Bill and Chris have put their effort in this mouthpiece! Not to say other makers don’t but this is finally something new in that area! There is of course other good alternatives out there, but this is something that will stay in our 1.5 world.

FWIW, some of the Dave Taylor stuff from Griego is also innovative and in the 2G to 1.5G range. But they aren't made out of cool materials like that, and probably aren't like a Mt. Vernon.

[Bach5G]

There's not been much talk about AR bass trombone mpcs either. Maybe a BS model at 27.6 mm ID?

We have a wealth of options available to us, these days.

[nopos]

I've har mine for 2 months now and I love it! A classic 1.5G sound with a more modern feel ( comfortable rim, easier highs and lows, a bit more power ).

[blast]

There's not been much talk about AR bass trombone mpcs either. Maybe a BS model at 27.6 mm ID?

We have a wealth of options available to us, these days.

There has... there is a current thread on AR.

Chris

[Bach5G]

I read it. Other than Mr. Gittleson's review (of, I think, a 1G-sized mpc), not much talk. Or maybe I missed it.

[mrdeacon]

Read it. Other than Mr. Gittleson's review (of, I think, a 1G-sized mpc), not much talk. Or maybe I missed it.

There aren't a lot of bass pieces floating around. I don't know anyone who plays on one. A few LA studio guys have tried the tenor stuff and some really dug it. I think Alan Kaplan is the one who's really digging AR.

That Griego Dave Taylor stuff though is funky. While it might have a 2G or 1 1/2G rim on it the rest of the specs are pretty large. The throat and backbore on those things are pretty big, if I'm not mistaken.

[MTbassbone]

So can they be purchased in the US or can we import them? Where can you find information about sizes and materials?

[blast]

There is a live AR thread on this forum.... can we keep AR talk on that thread.
For what it's worth, someone here on the forum has a bass AR, He came to me for a lesson. He is very keen on it. Looks well made. I didn't try it.

Chris

[Posaunus]

There is a live AR thread on this forum.... can we keep AR talk on that thread.

[Schlitz]

.

[Savio]

So can they be purchased in the US or can we import them? Where can you find information about sizes and materials?

Just contact "Islander" in this forum.

The size is the classic 1 1/2 bass trombone. The materials can be ordered in different ways I think?

My recommendation, try it!

Leif

[islander]

I think he was asking about AR mouthpieces, rather than mine, Leif. BTW, I should have prototype 2Gs ready imminently.

[RustBeltBass]

Out of curiosity: How much are those ?

[Bach5G]

Any more info-feedback re: these (Symington) mpcs?

[islander]

I've just had a few made in brass and a few in zirconium. If you like the 1.5 size and a flattish rim, then they could be up your street.

[WGWTR180]

Out of curiosity: How much are those ?

Well my dad would say "if you have to ask......"

[FOSSIL]

Nice first post Bill

Chris

[mrdeacon]

I always like to describe the Symington as the best MV 1.5 you can buy!

All of the original MVs are pretty dang quirky but if you find a good one it sounds absolutely amazing. Nothing else like them! In comparison the Symington is going to be less quirky while still playing amazing. The sound, of course, is not 100% the same as an MV original but it is the closest to one I have ever played. It genuinely has that "MV sound" to it. Well worth the dough if you can pick one up. I've got 2

I'm still super excited to get my hands on the Symington 2G!!

[WGWTR180]

Nice first post Bill

Chris

[Backbone]

Out of curiosity: How much are those ?

Well my dad would say "if you have to ask......"

Well, sometimes you have to ask incase you have to save...

Plus, now I am curious too!

[islander]

Well, with Sterling so pathetically weak thanks to Brexit (or not, or whatever) they're not remarkably expensive, given that they're made in such small batches. At least so far. Zirconium makes them undoubtedly expensive, but it's a very expensive metal, and requires super-careful machining.

Bill Symington

[FOSSIL]

Bill just sent me a 2G to test. I'm very impressed. 2G width but with a more comfortable rim. Dark and free blowing, 2G players will love it !

Chris

[WGWTR180]

Well, with Sterling so pathetically weak thanks to Brexit (or not, or whatever) they're not remarkably expensive, given that they're made in such small batches. At least so far. Zirconium makes them undoubtedly expensive, but it's a very expensive metal, and requires super-careful machining.

Bill Symington

Absolutely. My previous comment to the other poster was just my attempt at humor. Your mouthpiece is a great product.

[RoscoTrombone]

I've been trying this for the last few weeks and admittedly I've found it to be quite a bit bigger than I was expecting - coming from a standard Bach 2G - and bigger than the standard 1.5G.

It's a super piece with a very comfortable rim and very well made but personally I've been struggling to make it work for me.

I received his 2 yesterday via Chris (Fossil) and took it to a rehearsal last night and I was blown away by it. Same rim profile as the 1.5,slightly smaller across the rim obviously but a deeper cup the the standard. Just so much easier for me to play on.

I've just had another blow on it and I think I'm in love lol

And as an experiment I asked my 9 year old to listen to me play 2 scales on each one and she said the 2 sounded better.

After being in extensive conversations with Bill he's such a nice guy and a pleasure to deal with. He has created something wonderful here and I'd urge anyone who's into these sizes to give them a go!

Ross

[pompatus]

I purchased a Symington 1.5 in silver-plated brass from Bill about two and a half months ago. I knew right away that I had something special, but I wanted to give it plenty of time before offering my amateur’s opinion.

As for a brief equipment background, I’ve played on bass mouthpieces in the ballpark of Bach 1 1/2G to 1 1/4G since the 90s, particularly a DE LB110.K.K9, almost exclusively on different flavors of Bach 50 bass trombones, and immediately prior to purchasing the Symington was gigging on a Glendale era Marcinkiewicz George Roberts model mouthpiece. I’ve never had the “privilege” of owning a MV 1 1/2G, so I’m coming at this from a different angle than most guys, and don’t have that history to compare or fall back on. My playing is pretty varied, and on a weekly basis includes a small orchestra, huge wind band, big band, and covering tuba parts in a brass quintet. My current bass trombone is an Eric Swanson custom Bach 50 bell section with dual Instrument Innovations axial valves in Bb/F/G and an Edwards .562” B-Std slide with a Brass Ark MV50 yellow brass leadpipe.

The Symington 1.5 mouthpiece has been fantastic for me. It’s got an open low range, but I still sound like a trombone, and easily blend with the tenors. There’s a clarity and evenness to the tone that I’m really liking, that is lost in some other styles of mouthpieces I’ve tried. The sound has “darkness”, like others have described, but is still very centered. When I really lean on it, it gets very focused but retains that color without losing center or stability. When I’m doing my part, the sound and performance I’m able to get really puts a smile on my face.

It is a traditional sounding mouthpiece. It isn’t going to be everyone’s cup of tea, especially in a world of bigger, broader equipment and modern compositional practices. I have the luxury and flexibility of playing the equipment I want, and to focus on the sound concept I have in my head, and I understand not everyone has that freedom. Bill and Chris’s mouthpiece has helped me achieve what I’ve had stuck in my head all these years.

Bill and Chris are deserving of the praise their colleagues have been sharing. There’s a reason so many people are excited about these. If you’re curious, give Islander (Bill Symington) a shout, he’s very approachable and seemed happy to answer all of my questions.

-I apologize if this all sounds like a bad advertisement. It’s been a long week and my brain checked out after another long rehearsal. I never claimed to be eloquent!

edited for clarity