Flat Alto?!?!?!

[sterb225]

Looking for some hive mind experiences

OK - starting out on alto (again) and have been playing in a vacuum of sorts for the past few weeks just noodling around playing scales and intervals and some etudes without a tuner as I try to adjust my air to the alto. Tonight for fun I decided use a tuner ... YIKES!!! Even pushed all the way in, all but one of the mouthpieces I have on hand results in an extremely flat pitch. The one piece that is OK pushed all the way in is a very uncomfortable Olds 3. I have experienced going flat on bass in the past when using a massive cup, but this seems a little extreme to me and I'm wondering if maybe the horn is actually a little long.

Courtois AC131

- Old 3 is mostly in tune with tuning slide pushed all the way in - not a great sound - not really compatable with my face
- Bach 6-1/2A, 6-1/2AL and 5 are terribly flat - acceptable playability and sound
- Reynolds 3D is terrible flat - acceptable playability and sound
- G&W Euros is obscenely flat - favorite sound and response

I play an Griego Alessi 1C on tenor and find that smaller rims actually destabilize my upper registers - so I am a lot worried about this recent discovery with mouthpieces that are approaching comfortable to play being so out of tune.

Anyone else experience this? In a perfect world I'd play an Alessi 1A on alto - but am now scared that I may never get in tune and I'm not in the position to buy $200+ mouthpieces on hope. There must be some physics to lean on for why and how this is happening. Short of cutting the horn, what other steps should I try?

[Doug Elliott]

Most likely the reason the Olds 3 is close to in tune is because it's a smaller shank so it goes in farther than the others. My "Alto s" shank is even a little smaller than an Olds shank.

I know you said you can'y buy "a $200+ mouthpieces on hope" but you should know that my mouthpieces are without risk - if it doesn't work for you just return it for a full refund. I use a rim size close to the Alessi 1 on alto myself, so I know it works, that's not the problem.

[heinzgries]

the receiver of the Courtois alto is a bit smaller then a normal tenor receiver. So you need a smaller
mouthpiece shank. Work with Doug, he has an special alto shank which fit an alto receiver like Courtois, Conn
and other altos.

[haydens]

Has Courtois changed their receivers recently? My Courtois alto is from somewhere around the early 60s and it fits my small bore mouthpieces just as well as small tenors - currently using a Stork 3 but have had no issues with Bach or Yamaha pieces.

[heinzgries]

Seems so, my Courtois alto is build later and the reciever is smaller as a normal tenor.

[imsevimse]

You need a shallow cup. I use a Bach 12E with my Bach 39 alto and have no problem. A deep cup makes it flat. I know some use a Bach 7C or larger. It may work but where is then the alto sound. A Bach 6 1/2 AL - once considered a bass trombone mouthpiece - would not be my choice.

/Tom

[harrisonreed]

I cut my alto 3/8 inches and it fixed everything

[brassmedic]

Not surprised it's flat. Those mouthpieces are too big. Alto is a smaller instrument. It needs a smaller mouthpiece.

[harrisonreed]

I got a DE alto regular shank and XT B cup with a 105 rim and that setup is money.

[sterb225]

The receiver is definitely smaller than standard and the Olds mouthpiece is the smallest shank of the bunch I have on hand, which why it almost works. Doug does have a special shank that I’m going to try out with a shallow cup and rim that is close to my Alessi 1. I’m against cutting the horn as the relative intonation is super solid and predictable ... it would be crazy to destabilize those relationships when a custom mouthpiece can make it right as rain.

[harrisonreed]

The receiver is definitely smaller than standard and the Olds mouthpiece is the smallest shank of the bunch I have on hand, which why it almost works. Doug does have a special shank that I’m going to try out with a shallow cup and rim that is close to my Alessi 1. I’m against cutting the horn as the relative intonation is super solid and predictable ... it would be crazy to destabilize those relationships when a custom mouthpiece can make it right as rain.

Truth about the practicalities, but cutting the cylindrical section should not affect partials any more than moving the handslide will.

[timothy42b]

Doug's mouthpieces would let you fine tune it. But in the mean time could you just shave down one to fit?

Years ago I played euphonium, and the receiver was that intermediate (European?) size. I had a tech taper a large shank mouthpiece to fit and it worked fine.