Hammond small shank questions

[Cmillar]

Hi all,

Am wondering if anyone has experience with both versions of the same small shank Hammond mouthpieces.

ie: a 13M with the old school Bach/Schilke style outer design, compared to the 'skeletonized' version of the same size small shank mouthpiece.

- is the relative feel of the blow pretty much the same? resistance the same? flow the same?

- is the rim the same on both mouthpieces?

- is the 'skeletonized' version a 'lighter' sound? more nimble? less core? does it hold up well when pushed and have a nice core sound all over the horn at all volumes similar to the 'old school' style design?

Thanks for any thoughts.

[TheSheriff]

Hi all,

Am wondering if anyone has experience with both versions of the same small shank Hammond mouthpieces.

ie: a 13M with the old school Bach/Schilke style outer design, compared to the 'skeletonized' version of the same size small shank mouthpiece.

- is the relative feel of the blow pretty much the same? resistance the same? flow the same?

- is the rim the same on both mouthpieces?

- is the 'skeletonized' version a 'lighter' sound? more nimble? less core? does it hold up well when pushed and have a nice core sound all over the horn at all volumes similar to the 'old school' style design?

Thanks for any thoughts.

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Yes, I have some custom Hammond mouthpieces that are identical except for the blanks. One is the older Schilke style, the other is the newer funnel shape.

To me, the newer funnel shaped blank plays with a more open blow/feel. It makes sense because there is less mass.

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[JLivi]

I can't really speak to everything you're asking, but I did recently buy a small shank 13S, to see if it was worth switching back to Hammond from my AR Resonance piece. I will say, that I was extremely disappointed in the lack of weight in the sound on the Hammond. It lacked a rich timbre (I'm guessing overtones) that I'm used to hearing with my AR. I played a Hammond for 6-7 years before switching to AR, and have been on the AR piece for a little over a year. I have a feeling the weight of the mouthpiece played a huge role in this.

Hopefully this helps a little bit.

[JoeAumann]

I basically play Hammond mouthpieces exclusively, however I'm not a huge fan of the skeletonized blank. I think the primary thing that changes is the "feel". I'll leave it to that. Otherwise the rim is exactly the same, and internally they are unchanged. FWIW, you can custom order any small shank offering with the standard blank- I believe there will be a slight upcharge.

[cigmar]

I am confused about the skeletonized blank many of you mentioned. Could someone please elaborate.

[Bach5G]

Check Hammond’s website. The home page shows a skeletonized mpc.

[TheSheriff]

I can't really speak to everything you're asking, but I did recently buy a small shank 13S, to see if it was worth switching back to Hammond from my AR Resonance piece. I will say, that I was extremely disappointed in the lack of weight in the sound on the Hammond. It lacked a rich timbre (I'm guessing overtones) that I'm used to hearing with my AR. I played a Hammond for 6-7 years before switching to AR, and have been on the AR piece for a little over a year. I have a feeling the weight of the mouthpiece played a huge role in this.

Hopefully this helps a little bit.

=====

My experience is just the opposite. For about six weeks the AR I purchased was the greatest mouthpiece I ever played, then suddenly it went belly up on me. I went back to my custom Hammond's and will never mess about with pieces ever again. It's not worth it for as long as I've been playing the trombone. I do use three different Hammond pieces that are very very similar in specs, just slight variations here and there, to accommodate whatever horn and leadpipe combination I am using.

It also helps that I live near Karl and can see him whenever I need a mouthpiece tweaked or to discuss some crazy mouthpiece idea of mine.

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[TheSheriff]

I am confused about the skeletonized blank many of you mentioned. Could someone please elaborate.

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His skeletonized small shank blank is funnel shaped and reminiscent in appearance to a french horn piece. He will also skeletonize a heavy blank piece for you. I'm sure he has his standard way to skeletonize a piece, but for me, I had him do it the way I wanted it done.

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[cigmar]

I am confused about the skeletonized blank many of you mentioned. Could someone please elaborate.

=====

His skeletonized small shank blank is funnel shaped and reminiscent in appearance to a french horn piece. He will also skeletonize a heavy blank piece for you. I'm sure he has his standard way to skeletonize a piece, but for me, I had him do it the way I wanted it done.

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So what are the differences in playing characteristics between the regular and skelentonized blanks?

[TheSheriff]

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His skeletonized small shank blank is funnel shaped and reminiscent in appearance to a french horn piece. He will also skeletonize a heavy blank piece for you. I'm sure he has his standard way to skeletonize a piece, but for me, I had him do it the way I wanted it done.

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So what are the differences in playing characteristics between the regular and skelentonized blanks?

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As one might expect, his standard funnel shaped skeletonized piece is a tad quicker and a touch lighter in sound until you step on the gas. When you step on it it really lights up but does not fall apart sonically. A tad more shimmer to the sound. It is the piece I use in my Lawler model 1/#10 Lawler leadpipe.

But! I have one piece that is skeletonized in a different manner than his funnel shape. It was done before Karl offered his new funnel shaped blank. This particular one has more mass at the top and then quickly tapers. It is similar in appearance to an OLD Schilke 42B. I've seen pics of new 42B's and they have heavy blanks; not that. It is the one I use in two of my set ups; Kanstul 1606/Kanstul H6 pipe, and Lawler model 3/Kanstul W6 pipe.

The standard heavy blank is dense in sound and feel, and I love it in my Williams 6.

Honestly, the sonic differences are minimal as compared to the feel at my chops/focal point and the feedback I receive from them. I look for a certain feel/feedback to my set ups and try to match that feel/feedback across the board.

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[Bach5G]

Basically similar to Marcinkiewicz?

[MalecHeermans]

I’ve played a bunch of Hammond pieces both with the standard blank and the skeletonized blank. I generally prefer the feel and sound of the standard blank, though it’s really going to depend on your sound concept and the equipment you’re using it with.

The differences, as others have said above, are exactly what you would expect. My take on it is the lighter blank lends itself more to finesse playing and while it tends to accentuate the higher overtones it has more timbral flexibility within that spectrum than the standard. The standard blank has more shoulders and perhaps a touch more complexity. It’s relative timbral stability means you can really lay into it without fear of going too far. The light blank can get really bright when you’re looking for heat.

[cigmar]

Great descriptive narratives! Thanks.

[Cmillar]

Thanks all for the thoughts and descriptions of your experiences. (...great to have forums like these!)

I've a new 13M on order which should get here in a week or so from Dillons, which I'll compare to an old style blank 13M I've kept in the drawer for about 10 years and am now rediscovering. (...I knew it was a 'keeper', but it just wasn't right for the horn I had at the time)