Alternative to Schilke 60

ttf_AJ · Post by **ttf_AJ** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:03 pm

Currently I play the Doug Yeo because the cup depth is really ideal. The only problem I find The rim and throat isnt as comfortable to play as the Schilke but the Schilkes cup is just a tad to large for my liking and inefficient. I also find my sound can be a bit too harsh on the Yeo especially when playing trigger B naturals and Cs with first trigger. Any ideas? Thanks!

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:09 pm

I would expect your tone to be harsh playing B natural with only the 1st trigger -- you have to lip the pitch down a LOT. On many basses the slide is even too short to play C with only the 1st trigger.

That said, I have a Doug Elliott Large Bass 114/L/L8 setup that is about the same as the Yeo with a better rim (and a much better rim than a Schilke 60).

I'm not sure what commercial mouthpieces are around that size; I have several that are somewhat smaller and some that are much bigger. I hope someone with knowledge of the Hammond and Laskey pieces will chime in.

ttf_Gabe Langfur · Post by **ttf_Gabe Langfur** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:14 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Nov 22, 2017, 05:09PMThat said, I have a Doug Elliott Large Bass 114/L/L8 setup that is about the same as the Yeo with a better rim (and a much better rim than a Schilke 60).

Sorry to break it to you, Bruce, but Doug copied a Schilke 60 rim for his LB rims. Of course, it may have had little little to do with the Schilke 60s you've tried...

There are many, many excellent alternatives to a 60 at this point. My weapon of choice is a Greg Black 1G with the custom .312 throat and #2 backbore.

The Doug Elliott Bruce mentioned, either with an L or M cup, is also a good choice. Hammond 21BL and BXL, Laskey 90D and 93D, Griego .75, .5, or GP6...the list goes on.

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:16 pm

Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Nov 22, 2017, 06:14PM My weapon of choice is a Greg Black 1G with the custom .112 throat and #2 backbore.

I think you mean .312

Those are indeed fantastic pieces in that size range.

ttf_Torobone · Post by **ttf_Torobone** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:18 pm

I tried a number of bigger mouthpieces, and I settled on the Griego .75. It seemed the best balanced in terms of low range while preserving my ability to play occasionally above the bass clef as well. The Griego .5 was also good, but the .75 does everything I need.

ttf_Burgerbob · Post by **ttf_Burgerbob** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:07 pm

1G .312 #2 is pretty darn great.

ttf_mr.deacon · Post by **ttf_mr.deacon** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:35 pm

Doug Elliott's LB or XB mouthpieces are also fantastic. Check it out with either the L or M cups and a 10 shank.

ttf_EWadie99 · Post by **ttf_EWadie99** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:38 pm

Ahhh, the good ol' Schilke 60!

Back in the day (sophomore year that is) I had a Bach 1G and had it for about a year (its what my school had) and it wasn't the greatest of mouthpieces IMO. I tried a Schilke 60 and Denis Wick 00AL and think they were FAR better than the 1G. Although yes the 60 does have flaws, but I honestly think its a better piece than the Bach 1G since it has a better rim compared to most I tried similar in size (I prefer wide rims). I haven't tried other Schilke 60 equivalents but I do think they're more better and a improvement over the said based piece. Just thought I'd share my experience.

ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist · Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:36 pm

DE XBM10 is my daily bass piece. There are plenty of great big pieces out there and narrowing it down can be daunting. It can also be a fun adventure that could even lead you back to a different Schilke 60!

ttf_mr.deacon · Post by **ttf_mr.deacon** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:58 pm

Quote from: Full Pedal Trombonist on Nov 22, 2017, 10:36PMDE XBM10 is my daily bass piece. There are plenty of great big pieces out there and narrowing it down can be daunting. It can also be a fun adventure that could even lead you back to a different Schilke 60!
I'm curious did you try the XB before the LB?

I tried his XB series (both the Light and Heavy versions of the XB series) expecting I would love it and oddly enough I wasn't as much as a fan of it as I thought I would be. I'm just so used to his LB series I guess haha.

ttf_svenlarsson · Post by **ttf_svenlarsson** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:15 am

The combination trombone + mouthpiece + player = anything from bad to good.

I started to play basstrombone late in my careere 1969.
I tried many combinations of horns and mouthpieces.
1G Schilke 60 and Dennis Wick 00AL is not the best for me, (actually I find Bach 1G to be a very unbalanced mouthpiece)
Douglas Yeo is great but for me bigger then what I want in latter years.
Hammond 20 BL for me is good 21 BL good but to big for what I want.
Griego good pieces, Greg Black good pieces.
Laskey my favorite. 85 MD 90 D 93D and 95D all very good. (I use 85MD and sometimes 90D.)

Actually, the best mpc for me may be the worst for you. When I was younger I played bigger.

ttf_LowrBrass · Post by **ttf_LowrBrass** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:27 am

At the risk of potentially hijacking this thread...

Quote from: Full Pedal Trombonist on Nov 22, 2017, 10:36PM...There are plenty of great big pieces out there and narrowing it down can be daunting....

Lately I've been looking into alternatives to a Bach 2G, and I haven't found much.
I figured I was simply looking in the wrong places, but are there just NOT plenty of great small (bass) pieces out there?

ttf_Gabe Langfur · Post by **ttf_Gabe Langfur** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:33 am

Quote from: tbathras on Nov 22, 2017, 06:16PMI think you mean .312

Those are indeed fantastic pieces in that size range.

Oops! Fixed, thanks.

ttf_Gabe Langfur · Post by **ttf_Gabe Langfur** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:38 am

Quote from: LowrBrass on Nov 23, 2017, 05:27AMAt the risk of potentially hijacking this thread...

Lately I've been looking into alternatives to a Bach 2G, and I haven't found much.
I figured I was simply looking in the wrong places, but are there just NOT plenty of great small (bass) pieces out there?

Check out Greg Black's 2G, and if you can get in contact with him ask him about the copy of Ray Premru's Mt. Vernon 2G he did. Ray's was slightly bored out and had a wider rim. I'm told the Wick 2AL was a copy of Ray's mouthpiece also, but he didn't like the lighter blank.

I believe there is also a Shires Vintage 2G. There was in the first series of Shires mouthpieces, and it was excellent.

Doug Elliott makes pieces in that size too.

ttf_W/SBTRB · Post by **ttf_W/SBTRB** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:45 pm

Yes there is a Vintage 2G......I own a gold one and use it when I need to play trombone parts in a quintet. My normal mouthpiece is a Shires Vintage 1G which I like better than Yeo or Bach 1G. I never tried a Schilke 60. Back in the mid 80's I played a Schilke 59. I had a lesson with Van Haney and he told me to get rid of it. I like the Shires 1G becasue , at least to my ear it has a clear sound and is easier to articulate in the lower range.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:21 pm

This may or may not be relevant to your Schilke 60 problem but I found the current version of the 60 to be unsatisfying.

It was a flabbier, less focused sound than my 1979 purchase. I presume the different shank was the reason.

ttf_LowrBrass · Post by **ttf_LowrBrass** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:36 pm

Thanks Gabe!

ttf_ssking2b · Post by **ttf_ssking2b** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:47 am

Try the Marcinkiwicz 105. It is a copy of the mouthpiece Shilke made for Kleinhammer that became the 60 in production. The rim is wider and much more comfortable and the blow is extremely efficient. It is bigger than the Doug Yeo - but the result is superior. The current Shilke 60 isn't much like the earlier ones, and none of them are all that much like the piece Shilke made for Kleinhammer.

ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist · Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:19 pm

Quote from: mr.deacon on Nov 22, 2017, 10:58PMI'm curious did you try the XB before the LB?

I tried his XB series (both the Light and Heavy versions of the XB series) expecting I would love it and oddly enough I wasn't as much as a fan of it as I thought I would be. I'm just so used to his LB series I guess haha.

I did! Used LBM9 with 114 and 115 rims. Loved it, but the XB series clicked more comfortably with me and the particular trombone I use with it. I use the light versions.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:49 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Nov 22, 2017, 05:09PMI would expect your tone to be harsh playing B natural with only the 1st trigger -- you have to lip the pitch down a LOT. On many basses the slide is even too short to play C with only the 1st trigger.

I read that as

? Kinda weird playing the octave lower on a double valve with only the F attach! I am a tenor player so my brain doesn't work fast like the bass guys here

ttf_Horn Builder · Post by **ttf_Horn Builder** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:51 pm

Karl Hammond does a special order 21BLL (ie, between a 21BL and 21BXL depth wise) which is the "Goldilocks" as far as I'm concerned!!

Tried the Black 1G in both regular throat/bore specs and the .312/#2, and it just doesn't have "it" compared to the BLL.

M

ttf_Horn Builder · Post by **ttf_Horn Builder** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:51 pm

Karl Hammond does a special order 21BLL (ie, between a 21BL and 21BXL depth wise) which is the "Goldilocks" as far as I'm concerned!!

Tried the Black 1G in both regular throat/bore specs and the .312/#2, and it just doesn't have "it" compared to the BLL.

M