Mouthpiece Confusion

ttf_Dukesboneman · Post by **ttf_Dukesboneman** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:01 pm

I`ve taught high school band for almost 30 years ad have found very few students tat can sound really dood on a mouthpiece the size of a 57 unless they are starting on Bass. Why would you want to have to work that hard. The 6 1/2 AL is a great all around mouthpiece. most of my students play on some variation of the 6 1/2 AL. I say variation because I`m in a city school high school and our budget is crap and all my Trombonists play on a mouthpiece from my personel collection.

ttf_wwwShadow7 · Post by **ttf_wwwShadow7** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:36 pm

Quote from: Dukesboneman on Apr 10, 2010, 07:01PMI`ve taught high school band for almost 30 years ad have found very few students tat can sound really dood on a mouthpiece the size of a 57 unless they are starting on Bass. Why would you want to have to work that hard. The 6 1/2 AL is a great all around mouthpiece. most of my students play on some variation of the 6 1/2 AL. I say variation because I`m in a city school high school and our budget is crap and all my Trombonists play on a mouthpiece from my personel collection.

For that first week, playing on what you're used to is great. But if you try to play at the extremes the horn fights you. If you go on to play it for more than just one gig, the benefits of having a mouthpiece that matches the horn it's to be used on makes you humble quick. Recalling my HS summer job to buy a bicycle. And having to revisit the bike shop several times since I intended to ride the bike home because the chain kept jumping off the sproket. Seeing a guy turn a screw driver half a turn to fix it. Taking it back several times to fine tune it. And by the time it was near perfect I could have already been halfway home with the distance traveled. Since then I always have some sort of screw driver in my pocket. You don't need a screw driver to ride a bicycle, but if you're going to ride 40 miles to the beach in one sitting, it sure makes the trip a lot less stressful and conveinent if you actually needed a screw driver. You don't need a bass trombone mouthpiece to play bass trombone, but it sure makes it a nicer ride on the long haul.

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:50 am

that might been a deraileur dropping the chain off //going to high gear ???????????????

Quote from: wwwShadow7 on Apr 11, 2010, 10:36PMFor that first week, playing on what you're used to is great. But if you try to play at the extremes the horn fights you. If you go on to play it for more than just one gig, the benefits of having a mouthpiece that matches the horn it's to be used on makes you humble quick. Recalling my HS summer job to buy a bicycle. And having to revisit the bike shop several times since I intended to ride the bike home because the chain kept jumping off the sproket. Seeing a guy turn a screw driver half a turn to fix it. Taking it back several times to fine tune it. And by the time it was near perfect I could have already been halfway home with the distance traveled. Since then I always have some sort of screw driver in my pocket. You don't need a screw driver to ride a bicycle, but if you're going to ride 40 miles to the beach in one sitting, it sure makes the trip a lot less stressful and conveinent if you actually needed a screw driver. You don't need a bass trombone mouthpiece to play bass trombone, but it sure makes it a nicer ride on the long haul.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Nov 23, 2007, 09:55AMThe Remington is not made any more although there seem to be an awful lot of them on Ebay.

I may have missed it in the pages above, old thread, but I recently bought a new 5G Remington from an online MP "expediter". Not stamped though...Noticeably different from Bach 5G. Remington has very little bottom to cup, smoother taper to bore. Shank fits well in the '63 8H. The rim feels similar to the Bach.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:05 pm

Quote from: boyking on Apr 24, 2010, 04:54PMI may have missed it in the pages above, old thread, but I recently bought a new 5G Remington from an online MP "expediter". Not stamped though...Noticeably different from Bach 5G. Remington has very little bottom to cup, smoother taper to bore. Shank fits well in the '63 8H. The rim feels similar to the Bach.

We talking about a Conn Remington mouthpiece or a Bach 5G-R (I have one). The 5G-R is supposed to be a conventional 5G with the special "Remington" taper used in older Conn trombones. It also has a Bach-shaped blank.

ttf_boyking · Post by **ttf_boyking** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:24 pm

I get it. Can we not just do a cross section on every mouthpiece ever made and get it over with! Scan it..mill it. To order.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:33 pm

Easy does it. Why so testy? You called it a 5G Remington, but I wasn't sure if you meant a "real" Remington or this Bach mouthpiece sold as an alternative that fits the older Conn large bore trombones.

Either way, if it works for you then it's good.

ttf_boyking · Post by **ttf_boyking** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:53 pm

Truly sorry. Not a testy bone in my body. Way out of my league>

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:28 am

Just get some chops w/exercises from everyone from old school to new school, you would be surprised on how little a mouth effects the trombone technique. Lindberg, Alessi, Doug Wright, Jim Miller, Ralph Sauer, Denis Wick,any prominent jazz musician; all those guys could play anything they want and still sound "sick."
What a mouthpiece does is effect is frontal projection. Extreme example, Schilke 60 to 47. or 0g to a 12 C. The audience is going to hear different sounds w/those mouth pieces. Its all about what kind of sound you want. Find the sound you band director wants or you desire then you search will be very easy, perspectively speaking.
Look up something called Sympathetic Vibrations, they change w/material, and depth of mouthpiece. I'm not even gonna start w/the horn! Best of Luck.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:56 am

I've been playing for years in a New Orleans Brass Band. Over the years I have had several mouthpieces Dennis Wick Heritage, Yamaha, Courtois, FAXX, Christian Lindberg and all in different versions. Thanks to this forum, I came in contact with Doug Elliott. He finally advised me a rim 100 ST / B cup / shank B2. This is the best mouthpiece I've ever had! Super advice and excellent service!

ttf_ncmike1 · Post by **ttf_ncmike1** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:45 pm

This question may have already been asked somewhere in this vast forum, but I couldn't find it.
Regarding major professional trombonists (Alessi, Dudley Bright, Jay Friedman, etc.)...does anybody know if these trombonists (I'm mainly interested in tenor trombone) use the same mouthpiece for playing all music, or do they change mouthpieces depending upon the piece they are playing? Just curious.
I play in different groups from jazz to concert band, and find when I'm playing 1st I can hit the high notes better and with more ease when I use my 11C, and when I play lower parts, I use my 6 1/2 AL. It seems natural to do this, but I want opinions.
Also, can someone give me an opinion of the small bore 5G. Someone told me it was a good, all-round mouthpiece, but I know nothing about it.

ttf_apwilliams · Post by **ttf_apwilliams** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:50 pm

If you are playing a very virtuosic piece, you have to play very low notes, and very high notes.
You need a mouthpiece where you can do both.
I am only saying this because I used to do this and it does not really help your playing especially with ever increasing difficulty in music.
Also I am a bass player so I know nothing about the 5g =(

Hope this helps

ttf_wwwShadow7 · Post by **ttf_wwwShadow7** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:45 am

A 5G is like a 6 1/2 AL with a deeper cup. More of a C shaped cup versus V shaped like the 6 1/2. I played on a 5GS, a version with a shallower cup, but still a pretty big piece.

IMO, the mouthpiece to be used depends on the horn and the player. Some horns just like certain mouthpieces. Everyones face is different, so I doubt those listed play the SAME piece. Although if they play a common size like an 11C, they might. IMO 11C is among the better choices for .500 horns. A 5GS / 5G is better on 0.525 type horns IMO. Although I tried the Kanstul 1606 pea shooter in 2007 and it could make an 11C feel like a 1 1/2G.

At the moment I use a G&W Harry Waters. It's kind of, if a 5G and a 6 1/2 AL and an 11C had kids. It's kind of V-ish like the 6 1/2AL. Kind of comfy like the 5G. And kind of small rim wise like the 11C. It's what I wish I played on when I was in the Army Band, playing a 5GS. The V-ish shape makes it mildly harder to play accurately, but also lets you play the low notes with some ease on a relatively small mouthpiece. Small for me anyway, I have a big mellon. Physical dimensions anyway. Even though I have an arsenal of pieces I stick to the G&W Harry Waters for almost all things. About the only time I change is if I'm having an off day. Trouble with the high end, 11C. Swollen lip or other woes, 5GS. Or if I'm trying out horns, I'll take a variety pack with me. Some horns just like some pieces which may not be the one that you're using most of the time.

As a general rule of thumb, if you are going to be switching mouthpieces as part of your thing. And it's not something drastic like Tuba or Trumpet. You want to keep the inner rim size roughly the same as what you are most comfortable with, or most familiar with. Of course if that doesn't match the horn in question, by all means choose what does better match the horn.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:48 am

Mike, if you dig really deep into the posts on this board, you will find that the answer to your question is "yes".

Some pros use only one mouthpiece because all their playing fits that one mouthpiece.

Some pros use only one mouthpiece because they can do all their playing with that one mouthpiece even if it means some kind of adaption at the fringes.

Some pros use a variety of mouthpieces tailoring the choice to match the playing involved.

But I'm not aware of any pro who will change mouthpieces on a gig for different pieces. Once they select a mouthpiece they use it for a gig.

Size? All over the map. Again, it is a matter of finding a mouthpiece that allows YOU to play the MUSIC most efficiently. If you look at the "artist lists" of many makers, you might find the "average" mouthpiece might be a 5G. But most of us aren't "average".

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:59 pm

While we're on this topic, I need some help. I currently play the 48 that came with my Yamaha, and both my teacher and band director

agree I need a new one. They said I need one to help me get more up into the high ranges. What size do I need? Also, does brand matter?

Bach? Schilke? Rath? Any help is much appreciated

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:08 pm

At this stage I recommend going cheap. While Doug Elliott makes great mouthpieces, you need to have an idea where you are headed before you go out and spend $200 a copy for a mouthpiece.

The Yamaha 48 is comparable to a 6.5AL (Bach size). Your teacher and band director have told you they want you to buy a mouthpiece to help you play higher?

There are smaller mouthpieces and they might help you play higher. Generally what happens is you lose sound in the lower part of your range. And even if you were to buy the same mouthpiece Tommy Dorsey used (an Altamont; about a Bach 22D), you still won't be able to play as high as he did; at least not without a lot of practice.

Normally you would buy a mouthpiece for the low register and do rangebuilding exercises to get the upper register.

Having said that, if you want a mouthpiece to facilitate your upper register, a smaller rim and shallower cup will help. There are lots of them, but Faxx mouthpieces are inexpensive compared to everything else. You might want to look at a 7C, 11C, or 12C size. Bach makes a 6 3/4C which is closer in diameter to the Yamaha 48 but is shallower. Yamaha makes a 45, which is equivalent to a 12C. A little more expensive would be a Wick 10CS. Have your teacher help you select a new mouthpiece if at all possible.

ttf_GetzenBassPlayer · Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:58 pm

Quote from: DrOctagonapus on Feb 19, 2011, 06:59PMWhile we're on this topic, I need some help. I currently play the 48 that came with my Yamaha, and both my teacher and band director

agree I need a new one. They said I need one to help me get more up into the high ranges. What size do I need? Also, does brand matter?

Bach? Schilke? Rath? Any help is much appreciated

You need to be having this conversation with your trombone instructor. Coming to the internet to get advice on a mouthpiece would not be my first choice for information, especially when there is a person who knows my playing more intimately who I can talk to face to face. Information given here, while being correct generally, may not be correct for you as an individual.

ttf_wwwShadow7 · Post by **ttf_wwwShadow7** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:32 pm

I have / had a 48 (or was it 49). It's a mouthpiece. If you'd want to downsize it to facilitate a high(er) end, I'd say 7C might be a best first guess. The yamaha piece is just kind of bleh to me. It's not hideous, it just doesn't float my boat. It doesn't make anything particularly easy (or hard). It really depends on you and your horn. Or at least your target horn. If you have horn X, but want to be on bigger horn Y, I'd say 5G-ish as the next one. If you're talking a straight jazz pea bore, the 48 is way too big IMO. It was a little big for the YSL-684G I used to play that came with it. Just checked my drawer. 48 is what I have. Just a hair bigger (but noticeably bigger) than a 7C (bach). So I guess it depends on how big of a change YOU want. Are YOU wanting to go bigger or smaller? How does that compare to what your teacher wants? It's your time / money / comfort level when it comes to playing. By all means consult with experience. But you're the one who has to live with the consequence. (less money in your pocket, and potentially a piece you don't like and may never use.)

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:40 pm

Quote from: ncmike1 on Feb 05, 2011, 10:45PMAlso, can someone give me an opinion of the small bore 5G. Someone told me it was a good, all-round mouthpiece, but I know nothing about it.

I have a small shank Bach 5G. In general, I've found it to be good, although I've found it's not all that great for higher registers (on both my old 607F and my 2B+; I've only had the 2B+ for one day so the sample size is low).

To add to the overall discussion--mouthpieces are not a "one size fits all" deal. True, there are some standard sizes and conventions, and many trombone teachers will make recommendations, but in the end it's all about what works best for a particular player for a particular application. Much of this comes with experience and playing around with different sizes.

Some guys may find they only need one or two sizes to play everything they need on every horn they own. I only use a 5G on my 88H and feel no reason to get anything different. I do use both 6.5 AL-S and 5G on smaller instruments (my new 2B+ and my retired 607F, which I haven't really used at all since high school), but that's about the only time you'll see me switch between sizes. I've tried other mouthpieces but find it's best to stick with what works best and develop through exercise and hard work on them. (I will say, however, that I prefer a Megatone 6.5 AL to a standard but have both on hand).

ttf_LetItSlide · Post by **ttf_LetItSlide** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:36 am

Quote from: apwilliams on Feb 05, 2011, 10:50PMIf you are playing a very virtuosic piece, you have to play very low notes, and very high notes.Yup. For those recital-type pieces that cover big ranges, I find it much easier to go a little bigger on the mouthpiece to cover the low register, then condition the chops to play higher on that mouthpiece, than it is to try to go lower on a small mouthpiece. I played all of my college recital stuff on mid-size mouthpieces though.

I've seen players who could get a lot of sound in the lower tones with relatively small mouthpieces.

John Gohl, a college section mate and current Air Force trombonist, played bass trombone in the jazz ensemble with a Bach 6-1/2 AL. He could get a very impressive low C in triggered low 7th position on his Yamaha .547, and access it in pretty fast passages. I tried to match what he was doing and never could though my equipment was similar.

ttf_lukeradam · Post by **ttf_lukeradam** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:12 pm

No you can't interchange them--they will fit sort of, but not totally.

ttf_Practiceathome · Post by **ttf_Practiceathome** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:36 pm

Some of the best advice I was given came from one of the forum moderators. His name is ....oops, we are not supposed to name names according to the rules page. Anyways he suggested I stick with my 6.5AL Conn 8H combo and practice getting the best low notes I possibly could, but to really go for it on the low range. In other words not to rely on the mouthpiece for low notes but to work on proper technique. Once that is accomplished (a work in progress) THEN I might want to think about switch mouthpieces.

ttf_Mahlerbone · Post by **ttf_Mahlerbone** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:02 pm

I'm getting back into the trombone after playing very little over the past four years. My bass trombone playing is just terrible right now, understandably. I've thought about going back to the 1 1/2 G until my chops get stronger, but my double trigger range is just non-existent on that size mouthpiece. So I'm not sure what to do.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:25 pm

Quote from: Mahlerbone on Mar 29, 2012, 02:02PMI'm getting back into the trombone after playing very little over the past four years. My bass trombone playing is just terrible right now, understandably. I've thought about going back to the 1 1/2 G until my chops get stronger, but my double trigger range is just non-existent on that size mouthpiece. So I'm not sure what to do.

How is your range above the bass staff on your normal large mouthpiece?

Some people can play 1 1/2 G sized mouthpieces (like me) and others can't. When I haven't played Bass for a while I go back to my Marcinkiewicz GR or 3 and play that for a while. When I'm playing a lot and my bass bone chops are back I go back to my Doug Elliott setup (shown in my profile: LB112/L/L8).

If you really can't play something as small as a 1 1/2 G, just use your larger mouthpiece and work the long tones.

ttf_Mahlerbone · Post by **ttf_Mahlerbone** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:07 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Mar 29, 2012, 02:25PMHow is your range above the bass staff on your normal large mouthpiece?

Some people can play 1 1/2 G sized mouthpieces (like me) and others can't. When I haven't played Bass for a while I go back to my Marcinkiewicz GR or 3 and play that for a while. When I'm playing a lot and my bass bone chops are back I go back to my Doug Elliott setup (shown in my profile: LB112/L/L8).

If you really can't play something as small as a 1 1/2 G, just use your larger mouthpiece and work the long tones.

I can play a 1 1/4G sized mouthpiece and still sound rich and full. When I get to the 1G-sized range, then my sound gets really tubby. I have a Griego 1.25 and a Laskey 85MD, they're both really nice. The Doug Elliott setup that i have, an LB112/K/K8 is just a little bit too big and I start to sound tubby on that. I should just pick between the Griego and the Laskey and stick with one of those. I like them both equally, although they both have different qualities. The Griego is easier for me to center the pitch and the Laskey sounds more colorful to me, but harder to slot. So I don't know.

ttf_Mahlerbone · Post by **ttf_Mahlerbone** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:40 am

Quote from: Mahlerbone on Mar 29, 2012, 03:07PMI can play a 1 1/4G sized mouthpiece and still sound rich and full. When I get to the 1G-sized range, then my sound gets really tubby. I have a Griego 1.25 and a Laskey 85MD, they're both really nice. The Doug Elliott setup that i have, an LB112/K/K8 is just a little bit too big and I start to sound tubby on that. I should just pick between the Griego and the Laskey and stick with one of those. I like them both equally, although they both have different qualities. The Griego is easier for me to center the pitch and the Laskey sounds more colorful to me, but harder to slot. So I don't know.

Just an update - a friend helped me compare the Griego 1.25 Deco and Laskey 85MD, and the Laskey was the winner for me. The Laskey had a more even sound throughout the range of the instrument, and is also more versatile, being lighter than the heavier Griego Deco piece. So I'm going to stick with the Laskey for quite a while.

ttf_Radar · Post by **ttf_Radar** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:56 pm

Quote from: Torobone on Sep 16, 2009, 04:49PMThe only difference between my 6 1/2 A and 6 1/2 AL is the former has a large shank, and the latter has a small shank. If things have change in 35 years, I can accept that. The rim, backbore etc seem to be the same to me. My mouthpieces are as I describe them.
I don't mean to be disagreeable but I've been using a 6.5 AL since the mid 1970s, and I've got my original 6.5 ALs from the 1970s in both Shank sizes, so I don't believe the diferences in 6 1/2 A and AL were the Shank sizes.

ttf_John Beers Jr. · Post by **ttf_John Beers Jr.** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:04 pm

Quote from: Radar on Apr 08, 2012, 05:56PMI don't mean to be disagreeable but I've been using a 6.5 AL since the mid 1970s, and I've got my original 6.5 ALs from the 1970s in both Shank sizes, so I don't believe the diferences in 6 1/2 A and AL were the Shank sizes.

The difference is weird and confusing. The 6.5 A large shank is most similar to the 6.5AL small shank, but they also now make a 6.5AL large shank and, presumable, a 6.5A small shank. Small, but noticeable, differences... apparently.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:28 pm

Quote from: John Beers Jr. on Apr 08, 2012, 06:04PMThe difference is weird and confusing. The 6.5 A large shank is most similar to the 6.5AL small shank, but they also now make a 6.5AL large shank and, presumable, a 6.5A small shank. Small, but noticeable, differences... apparently.

The 6 1/2 AL of small or large shank is identical (except for the shank of course). The 6 1/2 A large shank has the throat and backbore of a standard Bach bass mouthpiece (like a 5G) while the 6 1/2 A small shank has the throat and backbore of a standard Bach tenor mouthpiece (like a 7C).

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:02 pm

Ok, so I figured I'd just stick this in here. I've run a few searches and wasn't able to find info on the throat sizes of Schilke mouthpieces. Specifically the 51 and 52 series mouthpieces. I can find plenty of info on the rim and cup characteristics, but no real specfications on throat sizes. Does anyone have this information? I'm looking for alternatives to my usual Bach and Faxx 5G mouthpieces that I play on my Large Bore instruments. I've got a Yamaha 51C4 but I believe they are a bit smaller than the schilke's of the same name.

Also, what is the deal with the symphony series mouthpieces? They look like they are just more expensive variants of the 51 and 52 series. I can't find much info on what exactly makes them so different though.

ttf_Burgerbob · Post by **ttf_Burgerbob** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:52 pm

Quote from: daveyboy37 on Apr 17, 2012, 04:02PMOk, so I figured I'd just stick this in here. I've run a few searches and wasn't able to find info on the throat sizes of Schilke mouthpieces. Specifically the 51 and 52 series mouthpieces. I can find plenty of info on the rim and cup characteristics, but no real specfications on throat sizes. Does anyone have this information? I'm looking for alternatives to my usual Bach and Faxx 5G mouthpieces that I play on my Large Bore instruments. I've got a Yamaha 51C4 but I believe they are a bit smaller than the schilke's of the same name.

Also, what is the deal with the symphony series mouthpieces? They look like they are just more expensive variants of the 51 and 52 series. I can't find much info on what exactly makes them so different though.

The rims and outside shape were changed- maybe a couple other little changes. They were designed by Karl Hammond, so I would just go there instead.

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:41 am

Here's one thing that has always confused me. On my King 3B, with a 6 1/2AL mouthpiece, I can play down to pedal F without having to shift the mouthpiece up.

On a .547 bore horn with a 5G mouthpiece, I can barely manage Ab, and sometimes a G without having to shift. With a 3G I can get the G easily but still not down to the pedal F.

On my Bass trombone, even with a 1 1/2G mouthpiece I can only get down to Pedal F without having to shift.

I've been trying to figure out why this is. does it have to do with throat size? does more back pressure allow easier pedal notes? It just seems kind of counter-intuitive that I'd have more issues playing pedal notes on larger bore horns.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:53 am

I've found that smaller bore horns (with their higher resistance) seem to help playing pedals. On my alto I can play double pedals while I can't on my regular trombone.

Problem is, while the small bore instruments make the low notes easier to play you can't play them as loud as you can on a larger bore instrument. So that low D I played on the King 3B with F trying to cover a bass trombone part didn't cut through. On the other hand, the low D on my King 7B bass trombone fits just fine.

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:01 am

Yeah. It's just kinda frustrating at times that I have to work so hard getting those pedal notes on the large bore tenor.

On the other hand, except in a few solo pieces, they don't happen very often.

I mean I could always play on the 3G with the Large bore but I tried that for a while, and it's just too big for me, volume wise, and width wise. I have never tried a 4G-sized piece though. Maybe it's time to try.

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:15 am

Any horn with more resistance makes pedals easier for me to play. I can play pedals on a euphonium much easier than on a trombone.

My main axe (Shires large bore/Thayer) is low resistance, and pedals are a lot harder for me.

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:54 am

Both of my Kanstul's came with 6 1/2AL mouthpieces that I keep in the case for emergencies. I have better pedal range on those than with my 5G's. Just seems kind of counter intuitive. Though, it reminds me of how everyone seems to think that H-D motorcycles run best with straight pipes. If they have carburetors, most in fact will run horribly on straight pipes. The jets inside are set based on having a certain amount of back-pressure. If that is changed, you've gotta change the setup or it'll run badly.

I mean it's great that some people can play on super open bass trombones with .578 slides and no leadpipe, but for most people, having some constrictions helps.

ttf_mellotbone · Post by **ttf_mellotbone** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:28 am

Try the Phile Teele studies.

If you stick with them you'll find you can provide more of your own resistance.

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:44 am

Quote from: mellotbone on Jun 07, 2012, 04:28AMTry the Phile Teele studies.

If you stick with them you'll find you can provide more of your own resistance.
any idea where to get that book? also gotta pick up an alto trombone method as well, and some other stuff, maybe a faxx 4g, just to see how it works with me.

ttf_mellotbone · Post by **ttf_mellotbone** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:45 pm

http://www.slidebone.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=305

http://www.hickeys.com/products/040/sku40928.htm

http://www.hornguys.com/books.php

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:49 pm

Hmm. Looks like Hickey's will be getting an order from me soon. been quite some time since I've ordered from them.

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:59 pm

Mouthpiece confusion? I know a lot about that subject, STILL, the problem is when you are confused you don't really know anything.

So its difficult to say so much about it. And I admit I still don't know what exactly make that feeling.

For me it was after a down period, and then suddenly getting back to playing with the same interest as a kid discovering a family park for first time. You know with lot of fun "kid cars", carousels and activities. Much thanks to this forum I did discover the trombone again. That's the truth.

How to avoid confusion? Sometimes its maybe good to be some confused? It makes you stop, it makes you struggle, it makes you think. I believe some struggling can be good but not so much that you give up. It can be creative and learning. Who can tell they go through everything without some struggling. Most of us do it a little everyday. Don't we. Not a bad thing always, that's life.

Still I remember Chris here in the forum told he was about to go to Norway and hit me in the head with my mouthpiece.

He should have done it of course.

Because I was so confused and didn't listen more experienced players.

OK we are some stupid some times. What I should have done was to go to Chris and have a lesson of course. In fact a plane ticket and a lesson with him would be cheaper. Since I'm not a beginner, I know a "face to face lesson" is much more worth than internet communication. It will always be the best no matter how developed internet will be with both sound and video.

So what I should have done is clear, but its easy to tell afterwards.

Go to a good teacher!!

But I also got something out of my struggling: A beautiful Bach MT Vernon 1 1/2g which I have played over a year. They did some in those MT Vernon days that might never come back.

OK Never take all confusion and struggling as a bad thing! After confusion you get something back...hopefully! Never give up.

I have some tunes:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1889167/13%20juli12%20high%2060h%20mtvernon.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1889167/13%20juli12%20child%2060h%20mtvernon.mp3

Child is born is funny because there is a baby there hanging in my leg. I think its my baby ...

Anyway thats what my wife told

Leif

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:11 am

Working with a good teacher is a very good way to help pick out a mouthpiece that sounds good. Also having a good sound recording device can help as well.

However, what's more important is that the mouthpiece "works" for you, and makes it easier for you to play the instrument throughout the full range. The problem is FINDING that mouthpiece. There are plenty of mouthpieces with similar specs that are quite different. Rim Size, cup size, throat size, and backbore style are the most easily measured variables. Others like cup profile, throat profile, rim shape, weight distribution, etc are much harder to quantify, and until you play them, you really don't know how they will work out.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:27 pm

From my experience with mouthpieces many many many pros use a 6 1/2 AL including myself. The 6 1/2 AL is like a hybrid, lets you play high but sound great in the low register still. I would stick with it but if there is a feeling you're looking for consult these http://www.trombonelessons.com/mpanatomy/mpanatomy.html
http://www.bestbrass.jp/en/mouthpiece/pdf/for_you.pdf

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:50 pm

Or...

we have our own mouthpiece guru on here - Doug Elliot. A consult with him could work wonders.

ttf_AZTBNDAD · Post by **ttf_AZTBNDAD** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:53 am

When I was playing tenor, I was really struggling with the 6 1/2AL, a pro play I met told me to try the Bach 11C....what a difference.

The best advice I can give you is go to the store with your horn and play different mouthpieces.

Don't decide based on Brand. Decide based on performance.

ttf_jsmn4vu · Post by **ttf_jsmn4vu** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:50 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Jun 04, 2012, 07:53AMI've found that smaller bore horns (with their higher resistance) seem to help playing pedals. On my alto I can play double pedals while I can't on my regular trombone.
Yes, and it's all about the air, of course. The little horns and mouthpieces make it easier to "fill up" the horn and get the pedals to speak. To do that on a big horn requires a good bit more air.

"Fill up" is in quotes because I'm misusing it here, but it should nonetheless communicate the concept to most.

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:34 am

Your teacher gave you a mouthpiece to use, did you ask why ? that would be a good starting point, as your teacher will know/should know your playing...if they cannot give a satisfactory answer....change your teacher!

make contact with DE, he has a wealth of knowledge and experience in dealing with this subject!

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:27 am

Just a short note on pedals/low range in general and smaller/larger horns and m'pces. The word counterintuitive has been used to describe the quite common experience of "better low range/less shifting on smaller equipment" for many players. It all depends on your understanding. Intution often doesn't work if there is not some sort of prior tuition going on.

Two ideas:

1-The ideal rim size for any player has to do with his or her facial physiognomy...teeth size and shape, lip size, overbite/underbite etc. When the aperture needs more room to expand for low notes than is allowed by the rim diameter, then a "shift" is needed. Ditto the other way. Too large a rim diameter will not help to support someone's naturally smaller aperture that works quite well in the low range.

2-Most low range problems are caused by a lack of resistance from behind the m'pce...in the embouchure and in the use of the tongue as a sort of air nozzle. Smaller equipment provides the missing resistance. Once one develops real embouchure strength and balance in the low registers then the small equipment crutch is no longer needed.

S.

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:27 am

Just a short note on pedals/low range in general and smaller/larger horns and m'pces. The word counterintuitive has been used to describe the quite common experience of "better low range/less shifting on smaller equipment" for many players. It all depends on your understanding. Intution often doesn't work if there is not some sort of prior tuition going on.

Two ideas:

1-The ideal rim size for any player has to do with his or her facial physiognomy...teeth size and shape, lip size, overbite/underbite etc. When the aperture needs more room to expand for low notes than is allowed by the rim diameter, then a "shift" is needed. Ditto the other way. Too large a rim diameter will not help to support someone's naturally smaller aperture that works quite well in the low range.

2-Most low range problems are caused by a lack of resistance from behind the m'pce...in the embouchure and in the use of the tongue as a sort of air nozzle. Smaller equipment provides the missing resistance. Once one develops real embouchure strength and balance in the low registers then the small equipment crutch is no longer needed.

S.