Bach Strad silver tube material?

ttf_Wasatch Oz · Post by **ttf_Wasatch Oz** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:57 am

Can someone tell me if the silver (colored) tubes and tube connectors on the bell section are plated, or are they a different (silver colored) solid metal? From what I've seen so far (polishing some scratches), it seems that the metal is a solid silver and not just plated --unless the plating is really thick.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:20 am

Bracing and ferrules etc. That appear silver in color are usually nickel on a trombone.

ttf_john sandhagen · Post by **ttf_john sandhagen** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:10 pm

We call it nickel, however it's actually a brass alloy, 15% nickel, 70%(+-)copper, the rest zinc.

Harder than standard brass, more corrosian resistant, a bit more brittle.

ttf_bonearzt · Post by **ttf_bonearzt** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:04 am

I think at one time it also had tin mixed in.

But called nickel silver as it sounds more expensive to say "nickel silver" than "nickel zinc" or "nickel tin"...

Eric

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:31 am

If you put nickel silver and actual silver side-by-side, it's not quite the same color...

Nickel silver alloys are around 60% copper, 20% nickel, and 20% zinc.

It's pretty much the standard material for inner slide tubes, and you'll run into quite a few trombones with nickel silver outers, too. A lot of the more expensive trombones tend to have nickel silver parts at the grip points, both for looks and because it is more resistant to wear and corrosion.

Any part (or in some cases, all of the parts) can be made of nickel silver. In addition to what I've mentioned above, leadpipes and handslide crooks seem to be the most common. I know of no one currently making a trombone entirely out of nickel silver, but nickel silver French horns are still pretty common.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:21 am

I think with Rath you can get an all nickel horn? At least close, I know of someone with a nickel bell and tuning slide and obviously they do crooks and slides out of it. Not sure about the neckpipe though.

ttf_Wasatch Oz · Post by **ttf_Wasatch Oz** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:40 pm

Thank you so much! Very helpful next-level answers. I assumed it was a different (solid) alloy but didn't want to assume. And I didn't expect to learn so much about the metal composition.

I appreciate it!

ttf_leec · Post by **ttf_leec** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:46 pm

I have a late model Olds Special that is all nickel, no brass anywhere.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:09 pm

Quote from: leec on Nov 12, 2017, 02:46PMI have a late model Olds Special that is all nickel, no brass anywhere.
NL-15 Specials are nickel plated.
http://itsabear.com/Olds_Docs/Olds1973.pdf

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:11 pm

Nickel silver is also known as German silver. As mentioned, it's a form of brass alloy with nickel in it so it has different wear and hardness properties.

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:47 pm

I have a Reynolds Argenta that I believe is all nickel-silver.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:59 pm

Quote from: greenbean on Nov 12, 2017, 06:47PMI have a Reynolds Argenta that I believe is all nickel-silver.
Argentas were solid nickel silver, as were Olds O-15 Operas. O-23 Operas have some yellow brass in the valve assembly but are otherwise all nickel silver.

Most post-WWII Olds pro horns had at least some major component (in addition to their inner slide tubes) made of nickel silver, and several models are all nickel silver except the bell.

ttf_leec · Post by **ttf_leec** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:20 pm

Quote from: JohnL on Oct 19, 2017, 08:31AMIf you put nickel silver and actual silver side-by-side, it's not quite the same color...

Nickel silver alloys are around 60% copper, 20% nickel, and 20% zinc.

It's pretty much the standard material for inner slide tubes, and you'll run into quite a few trombones with nickel silver outers, too. A lot of the more expensive trombones tend to have nickel silver parts at the grip points, both for looks and because it is more resistant to wear and corrosion.

Any part (or in some cases, all of the parts) can be made of nickel silver. In addition to what I've mentioned above, leadpipes and handslide crooks seem to be the most common. I know of no one currently making a trombone entirely out of nickel silver, but nickel silver French horns are still pretty common.

I have a late model Olds Special that is all nickel. The Yamaha YSL354s in Canada anyway have n-s outer slides as well as slide crooks. Opps responded twice.

ttf_Larry Preston Roberson · Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:30 pm

Quote from: Wasatch Oz on Oct 18, 2017, 09:57AMCan someone tell me if the silver (colored) tubes and tube connectors on the bell section are plated, or are they a different (silver colored) solid metal? From what I've seen so far (polishing some scratches), it seems that the metal is a solid silver and not just plated --unless the plating is really thick.
As someone else mentioned, on the Bach Strads the bracing and ferrules are solid nickel. As is the receiving (female/outer) tubes for the tuning slides. And on my 16M, the legs (inner) tubes of the tuning slide are nickel as well; I'm not sure if this is true of all the small bore tenors. However the tuning slide legs of my Bach 39 alto are yellow brass.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:50 am

Quote from: leec on Jan 18, 2018, 03:20PMI have a late model Olds Special that is all nickel.
Late production Specials (model NL-15) are nickel plated.
http://itsabear.com/Olds_Docs/Olds1973.pdf
Page 18

The catalog lists the finish as "Nickel-plate brass; baked epoxy finish"; it's unclear whether any of the components are made of nickel silver - though it's probably safe to assume that there is at least as much nickel silver on a Special as on an Ambassador.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:50 am

Quote from: leec on Jan 18, 2018, 03:20PMI have a late model Olds Special that is all nickel.
Late production Specials (model NL-15) are nickel plated.
http://itsabear.com/Olds_Docs/Olds1973.pdf
Page 18

The catalog lists the finish as "Nickel-plate brass; baked epoxy finish"; it's unclear whether any of the components are made of nickel silver - though it's probably safe to assume that there is at least as much nickel silver on a Special as on an Ambassador.