Bass Trombones- Single vs Dependent vs Independent

[blast]

Even younger trombonists are sometimes daft enough to think that ALL single valve bass trombones are smaller than ANY double valve bass trombone. Conductors are easily duped ! For some years I played a single valve,unlacquered Bach 50B when a famous conductor requested small trombones.... he even came up to me and said how much difference the small trombone made. They never think that the player can change the sound.... Duh...

Chris

[islander]

I think I rather prefer my single valve over my double independent. More nimble, less massive sounding - blends with the other bones better, much lighter. More...satisfactory. That said, double independent makes life much simpler. I play entire passages on the Gb valve alone sometimes, particularly in sharp keys. Probably sloppy technique, but works for me.

[brtnats]

I've really been enjoying my 822G in single valve mode lately. I agree that it's a more nimble "feel," but I also think the sound is wider and more malleable without that extra mass. I wish more manufacturers would offer a detachable second valve, if only so people could experiment.

Matt

[Posaunus]

I have a nice Yamaha YBL-421G single-valve bass trombone, with a 0.563" bore and a 9.5" bell. It plays beautifully.

I can't tell you how many times folks (mostly fellow trombonists) have noted (sometimes disdainfully) that I am playing such a small ("pretend" ?) bass trombone. They are very surprised when I point out that its bore is probably larger than theirs (by 0.001") !. After playing it for a few years, starting on Yamaha 58 mouthpiece, I am now comfortable with a Schilke 59 - but that's as far as I'll go. I think my bass trombone sound is acceptable, and I can (usually) play the low Cs loud enough and in tune (with a long reach). Good enough for most of my playing. And (as an old guy) I don't miss the extra weight associated with the second valve, whether dependent or independent.

[dukesboneman]

I recently got back into Bass Trombone as a serious double. I used to own a Conn 72H. I bought a Yamaha 321 Single trigger bass. This is all I need for everything I play Bass-wise. I`ve worked on False tones seriously for years so I have a low "B" that rocks. If I was going full blown Bass and got rid of my tenors, I`d get a double trigger set-up. But as of now , I just don`t need it

[sf105]

The single-valve fight back starts here!

[GBP]

Well - Just because 90% of the rep CAN be played with a single doesn't mean it SHOULD be.

I also believe that these days a dependent system has no benefits over an independent system. And really the only benefits of a single are weight, and sometimes ergonomics.

Independent all the way.

Also - I have a bunch for sale if you're interested. Look in the Classifieds or email me. I don't have them all listed.

In fairness to Mr. Yeo, he was referring to standard rep. classical music.

[Savio]

Its never easy to answer a question about what instrument to play. We have all asked that question some times in our life. I will not give any direct answer to single, depended or Indy. For me it happens to be single, but I use a double trigger if I really have to. The strange thing is I did learn an Indy as young, then a depended, and ended up with a single!

The real trick is to follow your heart (as Chris have told some times), and really go for it! Learn one setup and go from there. There is lot of options in all setups, but the best advice I can give is to really learn one setup and go from there!

Leif

[Tooloud]

Sorry for digging out an old thread!

But I think, my question fits in the context: Does anyone play the "Walkürenritt" like I do?

Beginning: f sharp in 5, b vv 5, f sharp 5; and so on: I use my valves - dependent setup, I'm old... - extensively during the "Ride". Watching videos I get the impression, that most bass trombonist prefer to use the slide more than I do (little adjustments have to be made, of course, but I manage to get through the ride without wiggling the slide around too much...

Sorry for the maybe stupid question, but it's been a really long time, since last I was allowed to do the "Ride" in public...

[Burgerbob]

I can't imagine getting a great downbeat accent with a good sound through both valves on Ride.

[Tooloud]

I can't imagine getting a great downbeat accent with a good sound through both valves on Ride.

That is the downside, but I've worked a lot on it and the valve notes are beginning to speak. My valve range is better than ever before, now that I work on this. If it's worth the labour - most fellow trombonist seem to tend not to do ist.
When I played this in my younger days I didn't even consider that extensive use of valves - maybe I was wiser then..

Thank you!

[jonathanharker]

I have been guilty of this! Also have a dependent set up, can mostly have the D valve engaged throughout. I can't imagine it working too well on independents, although they can use F♯ in 1st and B out somewhere around 3rd, which may or may not help...

[Tooloud]

I have been guilty of this! Also have a dependent set up, can mostly have the D valve engaged throughout. I can't imagine it working too well on independents, although they can use F♯ in 1st and B out somewhere around 3rd, which may or may not help...

So this may be applicable to the question of dependent or independent setup: I bought my trombone, because the sound of the dependent setup was simply better than the sound of the independent, open oder pressed valves.
Now that I am back from several years on french horn - guilty! - I am no longer as dogmatic on using the slide vs using the valves. If I really work on it, I can eliminate the differences in the sound, most of the time on most of the notes. Maybe as a result of the french horn playing, where you have to smooth out the difference of the Bb und the f-side of the horn.
I'll try the way I practiced it and listen to what the man with the stick says - or not....

[tbonesullivan]

I have been guilty of this! Also have a dependent set up, can mostly have the D valve engaged throughout. I can't imagine it working too well on independents, although they can use F♯ in 1st and B out somewhere around 3rd, which may or may not help...

I have done it sometimes, depending entirely on the repertoire. I have both dependent and independent horns, and I keep going back and forth between them, sometimes using different mouthpieces.

As I am primarily an orchestral player, one would think that having the Gb valve would be the most helpful for 5th position in first, but in reality I had to work to find places to use it, just like when I had the G valve on the YBL-613H. I am sure however I would have a much different opinion if I was playing more recently composed music that is written to take advantage of the use of independent valves below the staff.

[CuriousKen]

So I thought I would update, since I always wonder what people who ask for advice end up with... I just bought a Yamaha 622! Should be here sometime this week, but I’m very excited about it. It’s been great to read all of the thoughts around independent vs dependent, and while I’d love one of the nicer new indy’s... I’m sure I’ll be happy with the Yamaha!

I was going to suggest looking for this horn used as they are criminally undervalued (read: affordable) used. I picked up one to be my second to my custom dependent Bach 50. Getting the 622 I've come to the conclusion that it is the best off the shelf Bach 50B you can buy. An outstanding horn. For my Bach I recently had an independent valve set constructed (the horn is modular) so I now have a dependent and independent valve set for it. I made the decision to get an independent valve set b/c in over 10 years of orchestral playing, I ran into some rep in a pops concert that independent valves would have made a particular passage much easier to manage. I made due with my dependent set, but it took a lot of extra practice and fast slide work to pull it off and that experience made me see the value of independent valves. Mind you, I had played for 10 years in an orchestra that does mainly pretty standard orchestral rep and never played rep that independent valves would make a difference and I was completely happy with a dependent setup.

Now that I have an independent setup, I am seeing the value in the extra valve combinations. Jeff Reynold's book encourages using the Gb valve as the first choice/main valve and I'm starting to see the wisdom in that approach.

With the 622 I think you will get years of great service out of it before you might require a dependent setup. Congrats and enjoy a great horn!