Old habits

[BrassSection]

Any ideas how to separate treble from bass clef when playing with actual music? Been playing bass clef since mid 60s, it’s what is ingrained into my head. Treble clef I am comfortable with, especially on trumpet or French horn. Pull out the euph and occasionally my brain resorts to bass clef after a rest when I’m playing a treble clef part. Doesn’t happen on trumpet, maybe muscle memory triggers my thinking. Have played treble clef on trombone occasionally, no issues with that. Last maybe 20 years or so improving off of chord charts, basically concert pitch so bass clef side of brain is engaged.

Playing euph in a community Christmas band soon, director asked me bass or treble clef? Responded either, but I prefer bass. He mentioned treble clef 3 times after asking. Practicing my treble clef stuff, but on trumpet…euph at the church. I will,be getting it tomorrow.

Or should I be directing this to a mental therapy group??

[TomWest]

I’m primarily an alto sax player, but in the last year or so I’ve taken up trombone. At first I had a little trouble with bass clef. I quickly learned that concert Bb on the trombone is G on the Eb
alto sax. After a lot of effort, practicing every day on both instruments I started playing simple alto parts in treble clef on the t-bone and some trombone parts in bass clef on the sax. I’m now pretty comfortable going treble vs bass clef to the point that at a recent community band rehearsal I was able to cover a short alto sax solo in the absence of the alto soloist on the trombone.
So, I think you could get some music in treble, transpose as needed to play it as if in bass clef and vice versa. Hey, don’t over think it, it’s just music.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps

[BGuttman]

Treble clef is not treble clef.

Trumpet/tenor sax/clarinet/baritone horn treble clef reads like tenor clef on trombone.
F-horn treble clef reads like mezzo-soprano clef (imagine the tenor clef upside down) on trombone.
Eb alto sax reads like bass clef on trombone.
Treble clef like you see on flute music or hymnals has to be read where C is played an octave down C . Or if you can really play high, play it as great staff: is .

Confusing? Yeah. And if you don't know the movable C clefs like Alto, Tenor, and Mezzo-soprano you can really be SOL.

[Doug Elliott]

Concert pitch treble, or Bb treble?
A treble clef euph part will be in Bb treble, which you read as tenor clef and add 2 flats.
I can't tell from your posts if you are used to doing that or not.

[Geordie]

I started off reading Bb treble clef - British brass band. I have since learned bass clef and regularly play in big bands. My old habit is to automatically associate bass clef note trombone positions with treble clef notes eg playing a bass clef C above the stave my reflex, unless I control it, is to think of it as a D - 4th line Bb treble clef. It’s not an issue playing written parts, I’ve sorted that out long since. The challenge from my old habit is in quickly translating bass clef, concert, chords charts when it comes to improvising. I continue work at it but have some way to go with using bass clef chord charts.

[jthomas105]

Or.... since you play trumpet, just think about your euphonium on treble clef parts as a bass trumpet. Kinda making this more difficult than it needs to be for someone that double so much.

[Kbiggs]

If you can read and play trumpet parts, then you’re used to seeing B-flat trumpet parts. Trumpet is a transposing instrument. You read a treble clef C, but the sound from the horn is B-flat. Trombone in bass clef is a non-transposing instrument. You look at a C on the part and the sound from the horn is a C.

If you read tenor clef, it’s easy to read B-flat trumpet, clarinet and tenor sax parts, as well as treble clef baritone/euphonium, etc., like Doug Elliott suggested. If you don’t read C clef (moveable clef), then this isn’t helpful.

I like jthomas105 suggestion: think of playing trumpet while playing euphonium, kind of like playing a (virtual) bass trumpet. It’ll get the job done.

[BrassSection]

To clarify, no trouble playing a transposed for Bb treble clef part on trumpet, or trombone. Problem with euph is occasionally I’ll revert to looking at staff and think that I’m playing bass clef.

Even transposing French horn so that when I see let’s say a Bb on the chord sheet, it’s no sweat playing a true Bb…or whatever the written note is. Years of baritone or euph = bass clef I guess.

[bitbckt]

This just sounds like a case of cerebral flatulence to me. You can read it, but sometimes you slip up. Possibly more practice would help, but more focus may be more helpful. Is there a notation you could add to long rests as a reminder?

[BrassSection]

Haven’t seen the music yet, don’t know about rests. Agree with more focus, but I’m the guy that can open a loaf of bread, take two pieces out and put them in the toaster, and even though my feet haven’t moved, the twist tie is nowhere to be found. And it’s not my age, been like that forever. Maybe if I put my trumpet MP in the euph I’ll be ok…or maybe I’ll get the bass clef music I asked for and problem solved.

[UATrombone]

Treble clef is not treble clef.

Trumpet/tenor sax/clarinet/baritone horn treble clef reads like tenor clef on trombone.

Just want to add that there are minimum 3 common treble clefs for trumpet: Bb, C and Eb (also, sometimes you could see D, E, F and G)...

[BrassSection]

First Christmas concert practice today. Went surprisingly well for as long as it’s been since I’ve had actual,music. Got there and my folder was marked Euphonium/baritone. Bass clef. No worries about slipping from reading treble as bass! Only one in the section even though 2 others had signed up.