Lightweight & responsive valves

[BrianJohnston]

I apologize in advance if there’s already a thread like this one out there, but I’m interested in learning about the lightest weight valves on the market right now. I’ve heard about the Icon valve, I know shires axials are lightweight? And Matthew Walker’s M&W valve I’ve only heard absolutely great things about.

So, what are some of the best lightweight valves available in late 2024, and how do the blows compare to the open horn? Thanks

[Burgerbob]

Shires axials are not lightweight. M&W valves are great but they are not light either. Icon is definitely a contender.

[BrianJohnston]

Do you know any additional valves that would be similar to the Icon?

[Burgerbob]

Laetzsch carbon valves

[vintage88h]

The Laetzsch is outstanding!!

[claf]

Meinlschmidt Open Flow.
Not necessarily the lightest, but definitely not heavy.

[BrianJohnston]

So far I’m interested in the Icon, and the Latzsch Carbon. Anyone have an idea which of the two would be lighter, with or without including the wrap? Also would the Caidex be a contender with those two?

[hornbuilder]

Understand that "weight", on every part of the instrument, has a BIG influence on how the instrument performs. Some manufacturers take that impact into consideration in the design phase. Simply reducing weight may not provide the result you think it will

[UATrombone]

Lightest and very responsive valve in the whole world is NoValve...
Many manufacturers offer this type of thing.

[GabrielRice]

The Caidex valve is quite lightweight. Steve Shires' new valve is similarly light, and his way of bracing the valve section and bell manages to combine lightness with stability and solid core to the sound.

[BrianJohnston]

The Caidex valve is quite lightweight. Steve Shires' new valve is similarly light, and his way of bracing the valve section and bell manages to combine lightness with stability and solid core to the sound.

So the valve on the Stephens trombone?

[GabrielRice]

Yes

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Brian,

Always keep in mind the sound concept that you are aiming for. The trend over the last 10-15 years has been to go lighter and lighter, but there have been sacrifices. Lighter instruments and components usually translate to less core in the sound and less projection. I believe you are the Principal Trombonist in an orchestra. A lighter instrument might result in less projection and sound density......is that the sound that you are aiming for?

I am a retired band and orchestra director. I keep busy by playing a few gigs a month, teaching lessons, building horns in my shop, directing a college wind ensemble and directing a semi-professional brass band. To fill my hours of void, I work 25+ hours a week in a repair shop that sees oodles of instruments come through, from student to top-notch professional.

I believe that giving examples is the best way to illustrate a point. Last week, we saw a Finke single B-flat horn with a stop-horn valve that could be quickly switched to an F-valve come through for a cleaning and some small dents removed. It was made with the carbon (graphite) rotary valves that everyone seems to be fascinated with. This horn was a custom build and had a large bell throat, so it was designed to blend with the standard double horns. The instrument was a built in the mid-1990s and it was a work of art. Naturally, the horn players in our shop (we have a couple of good players) found it fascinating and wanted to play test this beautiful instrument. They were very impressed with it and marveled at how light it felt and its quick response. They thought the action of the carbon valves was impressively quick and the sound was huge.

However, I was sitting on the other side of the shop (maybe 25-30 yards away) and I was hearing something different. I thought the sound was thin and favored a lot of the high overtones. I brought it to their attention and the horn players both listened to each other from a farther distance away. They agreed that the horn sounded different from a distance and lacked projection. They both noted that this instrument would be devoured by a full orchestra and it was better suited for a chamber group like a woodwind quintet.

I appreciate your pursuit of the ultimate trombone equipment! I think it is good to realize that it is easy to go too far in a particular direction. Yes, gains can be made (lightweight to hold, quick response), but losses can happen as well (loss of projection/density). Just be careful with your projects and always ask for input/feedback from musician friends you trust. Good luck and please update us with whatever you do.....I enjoy your posts!

[BrianJohnston]

Brian,

Always keep in mind the sound concept that you are aiming for. The trend over the last 10-15 years has been to go lighter and lighter, but there have been sacrifices. Lighter instruments and components usually translate to less core in the sound and less projection. I believe you are the Principal Trombonist in an orchestra. A lighter instrument might result in less projection and sound density......is that the sound that you are aiming for?

I am a retired band and orchestra director. I keep busy by playing a few gigs a month, teaching lessons, building horns in my shop, directing a college wind ensemble and directing a semi-professional brass band. To fill my hours of void, I work 25+ hours a week in a repair shop that sees oodles of instruments come through, from student to top-notch professional.

I believe that giving examples is the best way to illustrate a point. Last week, we saw a Finke single B-flat horn with a stop-horn valve that could be quickly switched to an F-valve come through for a cleaning and some small dents removed. It was made with the carbon (graphite) rotary valves that everyone seems to be fascinated with. This horn was a custom build and had a large bell throat, so it was designed to blend with the standard double horns. The instrument was a built in the mid-1990s and it was a work of art. Naturally, the horn players in our shop (we have a couple of good players) found it fascinating and wanted to play test this beautiful instrument. They were very impressed with it and marveled at how light it felt and its quick response. They thought the action of the carbon valves was impressively quick and the sound was huge.

However, I was sitting on the other side of the shop (maybe 25-30 yards away) and I was hearing something different. I thought the sound was thin and favored a lot of the high overtones. I brought it to their attention and the horn players both listened to each other from a farther distance away. They agreed that the horn sounded different from a distance and lacked projection. They both noted that this instrument would be devoured by a full orchestra and it was better suited for a chamber group like a woodwind quintet.

I appreciate your pursuit of the ultimate trombone equipment! I think it is good to realize that it is easy to go too far in a particular direction. Yes, gains can be made (lightweight to hold, quick response), but losses can happen as well (loss of projection/density). Just be careful with your projects and always ask for input/feedback from musician friends you trust. Good luck and please update us with whatever you do.....I enjoy your posts!

This is all to be tested, not to be bought in replacement to my current set up. Appreciate your concern and advice!