Valve Trombone Ideas?

[SDG]

I primarily play a large shank slide trombone in orchestra, brass ensemble, brass band, etc. - love the big, warm sound. But I’m in need of a valve trombone that actually sounds like a trombone and not a bass trumpet. Not sure where to start? Used or good vintage okay, what’s my best option under $1000?

Thank you!

[Burgerbob]

3B valve trombone is really, really good.

[greenbean]

Yup - King 3B.

[trose02]

A king 3B valve would be awesome, but you're gonna pay over $1K for one unless you find some kind of crazy deal.

Either a trombonium or a marching trombone could work. They have the same length and conical section as a tenor trombone but not the same form factor as a slide trombone.

The Trombonium was an early marching trombone and the last King instrument developed by H.N.White personally.
You can find more about tromboniums here: https://www.hnwhite.com/Trombonium%20Page.htm

You can still get a great valve trombone from King, Conn, Bach, etc, but they're over $1K used & well over $2K new.

If you want valves and slide trombone form factor under $1K you'll need to look at brands like Stagg, John Parker, Mendini, etc.

When I want valves and a trombone sound I go with a Blessing marching trombone (flugabone).
Guests at jazz gigs are always intrigued when I play this horn and invariably come up to ask "What is that thing?"

- T.

[Matt K]

What's the use case? Depending on why you need it, we might be able to get recommendations that suit you better for what you're going to use it for. W/o that context though, I agree that a flugabone is pretty close to a trombone though I'd never take it to a big band where I was supposed to play a trombone part. Or at least, I would only take it. I did actually have an unusual gig a few years ago that actually called for Flugabone. Actually... 2 flugabones. That guy knew EXACTLY what he wanted though, it worked surprisingly well. (Surrey with the Fring on Top I believe?)

[JohnL]

If you have the time to wait until one comes on the market, a Conn 90G trombonium might be the way to go for you.

[Posaunus]

https://reverb.com/item/3368359-king-1130-flugabone

https://us.wessex-tubas.com/products/fl ... 961e2723ba

https://shop.schmittmusic.com/lake-city-415-flugabone/

All less than $1,000.

[Finetales]

If you want a valve trombone closest to the sound of your large bore tenor, you'll need a Conn 90G trombonium, Thein valve trombone, or something custom made. The 3B valve trombone is great, but it (like a slide 3B) has a very different sound from a big .547" orchestral tenor. This is what a section of 3 of them sounds like playing in an orchestra...it's an AMAZING sound that is way too seldom heard, but you gotta want that sound.

As for the King 1130 flugabone: I have one and love it, and have used it on gigs. However, I can't fathom how anybody could justify paying almost $1k (or more) for one as I've been seeing lately. It is not a particularly refined horn worthy of a 4-figure price tag...anything more than $300 is pushing it IMO. Most of them spent their lives being abused in school marching bands, and that seems to be pretty much what they were designed for. Fun instruments with the right mouthpiece though!

[dukesboneman]

Finding a Conn Valve trombone would be a better option as they are a .500 bore not a .485 like a King.

[Blabberbucket]

If you're able to find a valve cluster of the appropriate bore size - maybe from a marching euphonium or something similar - a creative tech ought to be able to source parts and measurements to craft a piston valve section for a large bore instrument similar to what you'll see on a 3B, etc. Between parts, labor, and research, it would likely be expensive but it's an option that I'm sure someone comfortable with doing custom work would be open to taking on.

[iranzi]

[...] This is what a section of 3 of them sounds like playing in an orchestra...it's an AMAZING sound that is way too seldom heard, but you gotta want that sound. [...]

not completely sure but either the audio is clipping a bit or that's just how 3 small bore valve trombones sound together.
Either way, they sound absolutely amazing and I want to sound just like that! Thank you for posting this. I now have a much better image in my head of the sound i need to be aiming for.
***
Listening now to early Raul de Souza (Raulzinho) and his valve trombone sound does indeed have that warm glow of slight analogue distortion, enveloping a massive prominent core sound. Very unlike how a slide trombone sounds when pushed. Maybe it's the breadth of the sound that's peculiar — slide trombones tend to sound more focused (speaking from my very limited experience here).

Panicked for a second, thinking i just spent a fortune on a wrong instrument...
But then remembered how amazing the slide is. I'll just have to figure out how to make that sound on a 3b. Half-way between Raulzinho and J.J. Johnson, wouldn't that be something?
Frantically making notes detailing a possible future Doug Elliott mouthpiece
***
Can't really find words to make a sensible comparison (can only think in tenor saxophone terms: Raulzinho is King Super 20 Silver Sonic & JJ is Selmer SBA). Here's 30 seconds of each, Raul de Souza in 1965 & J.J.Johnson in 1992:

[timbone]

I think if it is still made, Getzen made a really good one and their valves are the best. Reminds me of the flugel horn valves.

[Doldom]

In my memory Brassark was planning to make some 0.547" valve trombones.
Not sure that it was realized or not.

[timothy42b]

I think if it is still made, Getzen made a really good one and their valves are the best. Reminds me of the flugel horn valves.

I have one. It plays well but I couldn't get past the ergonomics. Carpal tunnel would start about ten minutes in.