Things That Grind My Gears

[officermayo]

These things drive me CRAZY and make me want to follow the instructions from the old telephone company commercial telling me to "reach out and touch somebody"......

Section mate who turns off his hearing aides to play, yet expects me to repeat everything somebody says regardless of whether it applies to him or not. All I hear during rehearsal is "Huh? What did he say?".

Those who are unable to count rests without "conducting". That hand waving around is very distracting.

Foot tappers who don't understand the purpose of the bass and drums in a big band, especially when they can't follow the tempos.

Folks who think forte piano also means crescendo. Play the damn ink!

Those who refuse to hold a note as written. They cut dotted halves on 3.

Jerks who make rant lists..... hey, wait a minute!

[tbdana]

People who play with earplugs in. How the hell do you hear anything?

Bands so loud I have to play with earplugs in.

Hmmmmm...wait a minute...

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Those who refuse to hold a note as written. They cut dotted halves on 3.

You do realize that there are A LOT of people who do not understand this concept. They are thinking in terms of a number line that begins with “zero.” However, in music we do not begin counting rhythms with zero.

I have explained this to students/musicians at least a thousand times. I have found the best way to illustrate it is to draw telephone poles and write the beat numbers (1,2,3,4) under the telephone poles. When you draw wires to connect the poles, they will see that a note that is three beats long (three lengths of telephone line), it begins on beat one and ends on beat four. A picture is worth a thousand words.

At that point the explanation that musicians start each measure with “one” instead of “zero” should make them understand why every thing is off by one beat. If not, keep drawing pictures of telephone lines!

[harrisonreed]

Heh, classical players who "hold the note 'as written'" in a march or in the Big Band ....

It goes both ways.

[chouston3]

As a community band player, trombone players that I can't hear.

I can't tune with you if I can't hear you. Everything you play doesn't need to be mp. Put forth some effort and project.

If I am in the audience and I can see the trombone players playing but I can't hear them, I get irritated.

It is a matter of personal taste, but I like to be able to hear the different sections of instruments when I listen to an orchestra or band. I do not like a group that blends so well together that individuals just disappear into the mix.

[tbdana]

As a community band player, trombone players that I can't hear.

I can't tune with you if I can't hear you. Everything you play doesn't need to be mp. Put forth some effort and project.

If I am in the audience and I can see the trombone players playing but I can't hear them, I get irritated.

It is a matter of personal taste, but I like to be able to hear the different sections of instruments when I listen to an orchestra or band. I do not like a group that blends so well together that individuals just disappear into the mix.

Community band trombone players who blast like they're in the USC marching band.

[officermayo]

Those who refuse to hold a note as written. They cut dotted halves on 3.

You do realize that there are A LOT of people who do not understand this concept. They are thinking in terms of a number line that begins with “zero.” However, in music we do not begin counting rhythms with zero.

I have explained this to students/musicians at least a thousand times. I have found the best way to illustrate it is to draw telephone poles and write the beat numbers (1,2,3,4) under the telephone poles. When you draw wires to connect the poles, they will see that a note that is three beats long (three lengths of telephone line), it begins on beat one and ends on beat four. A picture is worth a thousand words.

At that point the explanation that musicians start each measure with “one” instead of “zero” should make them understand why every thing is off by one beat. If not, keep drawing pictures of telephone lines!

I just use the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) system and say a note cuts off at the beginning of the next note (or rest) - 3 ends on 4.

[officermayo]

Unnecessary accidentals.

[NotSkilledHere]

people who arent necessarily rough with their horns but dont really treat them with the care/gentleness/take the time to secure the horn that they should just because they havent crunched a bell or bent something. "it's fine it hasnt happened yet." well once it happens it's too late. ofc accidents happen, and that's excluded from this.

back in high school, I watched a kid at all-state auditions crunch a $15k tuba bell bc he was in a hurry to do something with another kid across the room rather than take the time to properly set it down properly. the collapsible table probably wasn't set up properly either, but it doesnt really give an excuse for the way he put it down without a care in the world near the table edge and it leaned and gave out under the tuba and down it went.

ive watched many people have scares from their horn wobbling on their chair or something because they were being unnecessarily rushed to do something else.

[Kdanielsen]

Those who refuse to hold a note as written. They cut dotted halves on 3.

You do realize that there are A LOT of people who do not understand this concept. They are thinking in terms of a number line that begins with “zero.” However, in music we do not begin counting rhythms with zero.

I have explained this to students/musicians at least a thousand times. I have found the best way to illustrate it is to draw telephone poles and write the beat numbers (1,2,3,4) under the telephone poles. When you draw wires to connect the poles, they will see that a note that is three beats long (three lengths of telephone line), it begins on beat one and ends on beat four. A picture is worth a thousand words.

At that point the explanation that musicians start each measure with “one” instead of “zero” should make them understand why every thing is off by one beat. If not, keep drawing pictures of telephone lines!

I just say to hold the note until it’s time to play the rest after it. Don’t be early on the rest. Works pretty well usually.

[Kingfan]

Players who at the end of a gig leave their horns on their chairs or stand and go mingle, making me do the mambo to get out without knocking their horns off the stage.

Players who think they just have to show up at the last minute and play, then pack up and leave. The grunt work setting up and tearing is for others, not them..

Players who are always borrowing pencils instead of bringing their own.

Handwritten parts so sloppy they are almost, or completely, unreadable.

[tbdana]

Players who at the end of a gig leave their horns on their chairs or stand and go mingle, making me do the mambo to get out without knocking their horns off the stage.

Wait, what??? People still leave their horns balanced on their chairs??? Wow. I haven't done that since 1972.

Players who think they just have to show up at the last minute and play, then pack up and leave. The grunt work setting up and tearing is for others, not them..

Well, you got me. LOL! That's totally me. I don't show up at the last minute, I'm always an hour early, but I generally don't help set up or take down. I'm not paid to set up and take down. I'm paid to show up on time, play the snot out of whatever they put in front of me, and go home. I'm not a band leader or a roadie or a stage hand or a sound engineer. I'm a trombone player. I play the trombone. That's what I do. So, mark it in your book that you don't want to hire me, because I'm not there for the manual labor.

In fact, in a lot of places if I touch a microphone or a chair or a baffle, I'll get in trouble. There are professionals who do that. I leave it to them.

I get that there are gigs where it's like a little family "let's put on a show!" thing, and everybody does everything, but I do not play those kinds of gigs. I am totally guilty as charged of what grinds your gears. And, frankly, I'll help out once if asked, but if you want me to do it on the regular we're gonna have to talk about how much I'm getting paid.

Is that bad of me?

[BGuttman]

Players who think they just have to show up at the last minute and play, then pack up and leave. The grunt work setting up and tearing is for others, not them..

Well, you got me. LOL! That's totally me. I don't show up at the last minute, I'm always an hour early, but I generally don't help set up or take down. I'm not paid to set up and take down. I'm paid to show up on time, play the snot out of whatever they put in front of me, and go home. I'm not a band leader or a roadie or a stage hand or a sound engineer. I'm a trombone player. I play the trombone. That's what I do. So, mark it in your book that you don't want to hire me, because I'm not there for the manual labor.

In fact, in a lot of places if I touch a microphone or a chair or a baffle, I'll get in trouble. There are professionals who do that. I leave it to them.

I get that there are gigs where it's like a little family "let's put on a show!" thing, and everybody does everything, but I do not play those kinds of gigs. I am totally guilty as charged of what grinds your gears. And, frankly, I'll help out once if asked, but if you want me to do it on the regular we're gonna have to talk about how much I'm getting paid.

Is that bad of me?

I think Greg is talking more about amateur performances, where there is no paid road crew to do setup and takedown. I am not a high level pro; mostly an amateur who occasionally gets to nibble on the lettuce, so I always help with setup and takedown. And prima donnas who don't pitch in with such groups kinda grind my gears as well.

[harrisonreed]

You do realize that there are A LOT of people who do not understand this concept. They are thinking in terms of a number line that begins with “zero.” However, in music we do not begin counting rhythms with zero.

I have explained this to students/musicians at least a thousand times. I have found the best way to illustrate it is to draw telephone poles and write the beat numbers (1,2,3,4) under the telephone poles. When you draw wires to connect the poles, they will see that a note that is three beats long (three lengths of telephone line), it begins on beat one and ends on beat four. A picture is worth a thousand words.

At that point the explanation that musicians start each measure with “one” instead of “zero” should make them understand why every thing is off by one beat. If not, keep drawing pictures of telephone lines!

I just say to hold the note until it’s time to play the rest after it. Don’t be early on the rest. Works pretty well usually.

There are styles of music where you really do not hold notes at full value "as written". For real. Orchestral cats usually cannot play marches stylistically because they try to play all notes full value.

Orchestral students who cover in big bands are also always either cutting notes short (orchestral release) or trying to play through downbeat tied eighths instead of seeing that that means cut on the downbeat or on one.

[AndrewMeronek]

People who play with earplugs in. How the hell do you hear anything?

Bands so loud I have to play with earplugs in.

Hmmmmm...wait a minute...

I keep a pair of my favorite brand of ear plugs in every case. Wearing them, I hear anything poorly, but it beats hearing damage. I have found that fancy custom ear plugs aren't really necessary; a good 3-flange set that you can find at a good gun range works great. But there is a bit of a trick to making sure you pick out ear plugs that fit your ears: too big, and they distort what you hear a lot more; too small and they don't protect. And ear canals on each side of your head can be different sizes.

Speaking of needing to wear ear plugs:

Usually the worst culprit for out-of-control loudness is the keyboard player.

[Kingfan]

I kept earplugs in my gig bag for when I had to sit next to the drums. I put one in on the drum side only.

[Kingfan]

I think Greg is talking more about amateur performances, where there is no paid road crew to do setup and takedown. I am not a high level pro; mostly an amateur who occasionally gets to nibble on the lettuce, so I always help with setup and takedown. And prima donnas who don't pitch in with such groups kinda grind my gears as well.

Exactly!

[Kdanielsen]

I just say to hold the note until it’s time to play the rest after it. Don’t be early on the rest. Works pretty well usually.

There are styles of music where you really do not hold notes at full value "as written". For real. Orchestral cats usually cannot play marches stylistically because they try to play all notes full value.

Orchestral students who cover in big bands are also always either cutting notes short (orchestral release) or trying to play through downbeat tied eighths instead of seeing that that means cut on the downbeat or on one.

I know. Im talking about teaching children.

[Doug Elliott]

Handwritten parts so sloppy they are almost, or completely, unreadable.

PRINTED parts so sloppy they are almost, or completely, unreadable.
Arrangers, learn to format your parts so they're sightreadable.

Related to that:
Quarter rests at the beginning of a line that are so close to the key signature it looks like the next note is on beat one.

[Posaunus]

Quarter rests at the beginning of a line that are so close to the key signature it looks like the next note is on beat one.

Just encountered that last week. Frustrating!

[brassmedic]

For context, this is mostly regarding orchestras:

I agree with a lot of the posts so far.

Foot tappers should burn in hell, especially when you're shaking the whole damn riser with your incessant foot pounding.

People who have perfectly good hearing, but didn't hear what the conductor said because THEY WERE BUSY TALKING.

Yes, the holding notes thing. In classical/romantic orchestral music, you do not stop a whole note on beat 4. It goes to beat one of the next measure, unless you are instructed otherwise. Quarter notes are not short by default. There may be contexts where they would be short, but in general, a single eight note and a single quarter note are not the same length.

Conductors who stop EVERY FIVE MEASURES - usually because they screwed up and are trying to cover for it.

Conductors who are driving to the gig and already think the trombones are too loud.

Players who don't listen to the people around them and fail to match the phrasing and dynamics of the principal player.

The player in front of you who keeps moving their chair and blocking your view of the conductor. Sit still, dammit!

[JohnL]

People who have perfectly good hearing, but didn't hear what the conductor said because THEY WERE BUSY TALKING.

or worse, PLAYING. Seriously, if the conductor's arms aren't moving, you shouldn't be playing.

Conductors who sing parts incorrectly (let's not get into whether they should sing at all).
So far, I have suppressed the urge to ask "Do you want us to play what you just sang, or do you want us to play what's on the page?"

[Fidbone]

Sound engineers that set up the trombone mic on the right hand side of the music stand.

Colleagues that deem it necessary to play the last note up an octave or even a different note altogether.

Players that try to lead the section from the 2nd, 3rd or bass chair.

I could go on……..

[ghmerrill]

I think Greg is talking more about amateur performances, where there is no paid road crew to do setup and takedown. I am not a high level pro; mostly an amateur who occasionally gets to nibble on the lettuce, so I always help with setup and takedown. And prima donnas who don't pitch in with such groups kinda grind my gears as well.

I'm like Dana in always getting places early. In that case (in a community band) I'll help with the set-up. There are few people there, and (in at least some cases) it's necessary to set up stands and chairs. I typically don't help at the end to take down and store the stuff. At that point there are too many people there and they're just getting in each other's ways. I help by leaving.

[Bach5G]

“The player in front of you who keeps moving their chair and blocking your view of the conductor.”

Or slowly move their chair back into your space.

There’s a saxophone player in a band I play in who likes to put his saxophone on a stand behind his chair, in my slide zone. I’ve asked/warned him about it several times, but deaf ears. A sub showed up one day, and put our heavy book on her flimsy wire stand. It all went over and very nearly hit his sax. Lesson not learned though.

[VJOFan]

Playing the trombone, not the music- a lot of the above about note values and dynamics is that.

I can’t imagine the life that would lead to knowing only one style or approach to playing. In high school the opportunity to play concert band, stage band, big band and orchestra all were there, if not in the school, around town. In university, while studying “orchestral performance” I still played in the jazz band, a jazz combo and a bunch of chamber groups. My tuition was mostly paid by working in army reserve bands part time during the year and full time in the summer. Meanwhile salsa and blues bands always needed subs.

I guess it’s worth griping about wrong style playing because it’s just negligence on the part of the player. How can someone just ignore ALL the music and what it is supposed to sound like?

[officermayo]

Ran into a new one today.

People who read and play very well, but cannot count rests, as in a whole rest bar followed by a bar with a quarter and an eight rest. They come in early or a bar late.

"I remember when, I remember, I remember when I lost my MIND - POOT!".

[CharlieB]

Etiquette
Why is it that musicians who would never consider spitting on the floor have no compunction about draining the spit from their instruments onto the same floor ??

[ghmerrill]

Maybe because the condensation from the horn isn't actually spit?

[Posaunus]

Maybe because the condensation from the horn isn't actually spit?

We'll - mostly condensed water, but also some saliva and slide lubricant mixed in. If I don't want to contaminate the floor in front of my trombone, I empty onto a microfiber dish drying mat that I keep in the (tripod) case that holds my trombone stand. Throw the mat in the washing machine and it's good to go again.

[ghmerrill]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't generally use absorbent cloths for this purpose when we play; but just that if you think this is like literally spitting on the floor, that's not much of a cause for devoting energy to grinding your gears.

[CharlieB]

Condensation or spit ?
An old debate.
Something to try:
Set a timer and play your trombone until it gurgles. Drain, and observe the time and the amount of liquid drained.
Then, remove the mouthpiece and blow into the horn for the same amount of time. Again, drain and observe the amount of "spitless" condensate.

[ghmerrill]

Not sure what conclusion you want to draw from that, but if you want to be peeved about it, and if you think you're actually spitting into your horn, then maybe you're right. I certainly can't contradict that, and don't care to demand an experimental methods and data review. But I'm pretty sure I'm not spitting into my horn.

[brassmedic]

Condensation or spit ?
An old debate.
Something to try:
Set a timer and play your trombone until it gurgles. Drain, and observe the time and the amount of liquid drained.
Then, remove the mouthpiece and blow into the horn for the same amount of time. Again, drain and observe the amount of "spitless" condensate.

Much easier experiment: Take a mouthpiece that is completely dry. Buzz into it while holding a piece of paper in front of the opening. Observe how much saliva flies out and hits the paper. Answer: none. But if you buzz on it for awhile, condensation will begin to build up and moisture will start coming out of the mouthpiece.

Besides, I'm not convinced that in your "experiment", air blown through the narrow aperture of your embouchure would condense at the same rate as air blown through the wider opening of your mouth around the slide receiver. Think about the difference in how you blow out candles vs. how you fog a mirror.

[Posaunus]

I find it annoying to slip and slide on a smooth uncarpeted floor that's puddled by another brass player's emptied "condensation." Be considerate to others and use a towel, mat, or rag to soak up your discharge.

[ghmerrill]

Much easier experiment: Take a mouthpiece that is completely dry. Buzz into it while holding a piece of paper in front of the opening. Observe how much saliva flies out and hits the paper. Answer: none. But if you buzz on it for awhile, condensation will begin to build up and moisture will start coming out of the mouthpiece.

Way too reasonable. But it will probably be disputed anyway. The spit theory makes too much "common sense".

[ghmerrill]

Be considerate to others and use a towel, mat, or rag to soak up your discharge.

And if you think it's spit, also please use a bleach spray on it before you towel it up and dry it off.

[tbdana]

I'm a maverick. I just spit on anyone who tries to walk in front of me.

[AndrewMeronek]

I typically don't help at the end to take down and store the stuff. At that point there are too many people there and they're just getting in each other's ways. I help by leaving.

It depends, but the times when this is true are surprisingly common. It can be a big help just to get my junk and myself out of the way. Especially if I've brought a fair allotment of personal gear, like a portable music stand.

[AndrewMeronek]

Sectional trumpet players who play 50+ cents sharp all the time, and demonstrate absolutely no ability to adjust.

Yes, it's fairly standard for the lead trumpet to drift a bit sharp, but if the inner voices are doing that - it sounds absolutely terrible.

[ghmerrill]

I'm a maverick. I just spit on anyone who tries to walk in front of me.

That would require a lot of spit.

[CharlieB]

Much easier experiment: Take a mouthpiece that is completely dry. Buzz into it while holding a piece of paper in front of the opening. Observe how much saliva flies out and hits the paper. Answer: none. But if you buzz on it for awhile, condensation will begin to build up and moisture will start coming out of the mouthpiece.

Whatever the composition of the effluent released from the water key may be, it all originated in somebody's mouth.

[ghmerrill]

QED

[brassmedic]

Much easier experiment: Take a mouthpiece that is completely dry. Buzz into it while holding a piece of paper in front of the opening. Observe how much saliva flies out and hits the paper. Answer: none. But if you buzz on it for awhile, condensation will begin to build up and moisture will start coming out of the mouthpiece.

Whatever the composition of the effluent released from the water key may be, it all originated in somebody's mouth.

Not at all. Your breath comes from your lungs, not your mouth.

I imagine there is a small amount of saliva that ends up in your instrument, but you most assuredly are not spitting into your horn when you play it. The moisture is not coming from your mouth.

[ghmerrill]

... you most assuredly are not spitting into your horn when you play it.

Well, to be absolutely fair ... SOME people might be spitting into their horns. I know ... this is actually difficult to do and would require some work and training. But SOME people might manage to do it.

They're the ones who should always have the Clorox with them.

[TomWest]

“Spit valve”. I love those slobs that make letting the water out of your horn a gross out thing. Every breath comes in dry and goes out wet. Your warm breath contains water. That’s why your car windows got fogged up when you were making out with your sweetypie. All wind instruments are going to have condensation. Put a newspaper on the floor to catch the water so you don’t mess up the floor.

[CharlieB]

Whatever the composition of the effluent released from the water key may be, it all originated in somebody's mouth.

Not at all. Your breath comes from your lungs, not your mouth.

Hmmmm.
I tried getting air from my lungs to a mouthpiece without it going through my mouth.
Never could figure out how to do that. ?????????

[brassmedic]

Hmmmm.
I tried getting air from my lungs to a mouthpiece without it going through my mouth.
Never could figure out how to do that. ?????????

That's not what you said. You said the moisture originated from the mouth. That is false.

Do you not understand how condensation works?

[Doug Elliott]

That's 10 minutes I'll never get back.

[tbdana]

Well, to be absolutely fair ... SOME people might be spitting into their horns. I know ... this is actually difficult to do and would require some work and training. But SOME people might manage to do it.

They're the ones who should always have the Clorox with them.

There have been times when I've produced saliva while playing, and OMG it's almost impossible to play that way, for me at least. If I'm making saliva/spit, I can't control anything about my playing. So, I guess I'd say I'm definitely not one of the ones who is spitting into my horn. (Ew!) On the few occasions when I have had saliva in my mouth, it's been a nightmare.

I'm not sure what the Clorox is about. I guess I missed something in the thread. But I immediately thought it was about injecting it, because by gawd that's what the president told us to do!