Potentially joining a semi-pro brass band - have not done that type of playing before.
What should the tone concepts be that I have in my mind as compared to wind ensemble / orchestral / brass quintet playing? Listening examples to mimic?
Any "standard" equipment that seems to just generally provide the right tone color to be a part of that section? Darker vs brighter / focused vs diffused / trying to be more conical sounding vs cylindrical etc. Denis Wick everything .
I've only ever been a Bach player, currently a 42 that's on the darker side. May also cover the bass book from time to time (but I sold my bass so I'll be back in the market).
Thanks in advance! I guess I'm looking for a combo of equipment "standards" as well as performance practices to start to wrap my mind around.
I have only played in a British style brass band once. a few weeks ago with a very nice amateur band in Germany with a British conductor. so I guess the overall style was kind of "correct".
On the other hand I enjoy listening a lot to brass bands. Really enjoyed e g some of the movie soundtrack albums by Black Dyke.
I played bass trombone that one time and got along quite fine with my Greenhoe. I think what makes it special that there is a lot of room for a strong bass trombone sound as there are a lot of instruments with a lot of volume around you. I also found it pretty exhausting. lots of sustained notes in the middle to low register.
For tenors I assume it's kind of similar. focused, but not laser-like sound. I found the playing to be in a way less differentiated than in an orchestra or also a good brass ensemble (e g Philip Jones stuff), but with more focus on an overall blend and consistent sound.
In the UK brass bands seem to be Conn and Rath mostly in the tenors.
Would be very interested in responses by experienced brass band players!
I have played a lot in that kind of brass bands. Did lots of national competitions and obviously concerts.
You'll probably be fine with your 42b on first or second trombone. Depending on the volume your band produces you'd maybe want a clearer sound on first, but for second it's perfect.
On bass you'll need a full blown double valve bass. Something that can really crank up and isn't too much work. You'll find yourself competing with at least four tubas, most often timpani and some baritone - and you have to be heard. The bass trombone is an important color in brass band.
I've found myself playing quite technical stuff in the low range even in less difficult pieces. So I always took my independent bass trombone.
Also make sure you have a matching mute set with your colleagues. Most probably all Wick mutes. But some of the high level competing bands have quite exotic mute sets.
As for listening suggestions search for brass band treize etoiles and brass band Valaisia. Two top level Swiss Brass Bands. Treize etoiles is the no 1 band right now in the international ranking.
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I've played in British Brass bands for ten years in this stretch, and did a year and a half in a Salvation Army youth band when I was in high school. Things have changed a lot. Back then, the tenors played small to medium bore instruments (King 3B and Olds Recording) and the bass played a single rotor instrument.
Now we use orchestral instruments. In my band's section we have a Greenhoe/Bach 42, a Rath R4, a Getzen Eterna, and my Shires Custom .547. Everyone has an F-side. On bass we have my Shires and a Yamaha in-line of some description. (I usually play bass. Sometimes I sub on tenor, and one of our usual tenor players covers the bass.)
On bass you'll need a dual-rotor horn. Most folks play in-line (myself included) but I know some players in high-level bands who play stacked horns. The second valve is a necessity because composers and arrangers today write B1 as just another note and won't give you time to pull the tuning slide. I suppose you could work your falset tones to the point that you have a useful B1 but I don't know anyone who does that. (I wouldn't trust it anyway, because in the scoring you're usually doubling the note with the Eb and/or Bb basses and the goal is brighten up and put some edge on the tuba note. Falset notes aren't going to accomplish that intent very well. My opinion only, of course.)
As to mutes, matching type is more important than matching brand, and the bass has a little more leeway. What doesn't work is one player on a fiber mute while everyone else is on aluminum or everyone on fiber except one person on a metal mute. Jo-Ral straights and cups match up well with Wicks. You're going to have to figure out how make your instrument and your cup mute respond around Db2. I have a Jo-Ral and a Wick bass cup, a Shires Custom bass with the Conn-style flare and a Bach 50. That's four combinations of horn and mute, and D2/ Db2 /C2 don't really work on any of them. The Wick is better than the Jo-Ral, but it isn't good. With the rep we're taking to NABBA next year, I've got to get that sorted. As I said, the bass has more leeway. My preferred bass straight is my Crown copper bottom, and in the tenors we have a either a Jo-Ral and two Wicks or all three on Wicks. The blend is fine. Using a copper bottom Crown tenor mute causes some blend issues. (I also have a wood bass straight, but it does not work with the tenors on metal mutes, and none of them have wooden straights.)
Harmon mutes seem to be all over the map. We do not have matched harmons (one Harmon, one Trapani, one Wick in the tenors, and I have a Jo-Ral bass harmon) but they seem to blend fine. I don't know what our cornets use--the sections are still arguing about whether stems are in (trombone position) or out (cornet position) if the composer/arranger doesn't specify. I've never seen a call for a bucket mute.
Who to listen to? Great question: among the British bands, Black Dyke, Grimethorpe, Fodors, and Rathby are all worth listening to. Any of the Salvation Army national or international staff bands are worth hearing. In your neck of the woods, the Brass Band of Columbus and Dublin Silver are perennially good. Among the other US bands, Brass Band of Battle Creek, the Triangle Brass Band (although I think they are a non-contesting band that uses orchestral horns), Fountain City Brass Band, etc.
If you really are in the market for a bass my Bach (a 50T3G and a great player) could be for sale. It's a great horn and I'd like to be sure it goes to a good home.
Played in British brass bands for years, my advice would be:
If you have it, play equipment which will make your life easy to play exposed pp-mp sections. Any old fool can crank out a colourful but still tasteful sound on the loud stuff, but the delicate stuff is what really marks out the best bands and highlights the quality of the trombone section. A resonant and secure sound from the trombones at all dynamics can be magical in a brass band.
I played in a British brass band years ago-- then called the Eastern Iowa Brass Band, now called the Iowa Brass.
Back in the late 1980s-early 1990s bone section was all on small bores with large bore tenor on bass. Now it's all large bores and double trigger on bass. Euphonium equipment has upgraded as well. I played mostly euphonium and we were playing Yamaha 321s. Now all larger compensating Euphs. Iowa Brass is now playing at such a high level that my euphonium skills would not be up to snuff. Many American bands are now very good. We have an annual festival here in Iowa and some of the top Midwestern bands come. All are top-notch.
Among the American bands worth listening to are the Chicago Brass Band, the Milwaukee Brass Band, the Madison Brass Band and the Fountain City Brass band from Kansas City. Besides the top notch Salvation Army bands such as the New York and Chicago Staff bands, the New England Brass band is excellent in addition to the fine Ohio bands mentioned above.
It's worth listening to the very good American bands as the sound is slightly different than UK bands-- less vibrato, for example.
British style brass bands are one of my favorite genres of music and while I no longer play on in one, I go to local gigs frequently and love the music and the challenging musicianship always on full display.
MrHCinDE wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2024 11:22 pm
Played in British brass bands for years, my advice would be:
If you have it, play equipment which will make your life easy to play exposed pp-mp sections. Any old fool can crank out a colourful but still tasteful sound on the loud stuff, but the delicate stuff is what really marks out the best bands and highlights the quality of the trombone section. A resonant and secure sound from the trombones at all dynamics can be magical in a brass band.
Is it possible for you to hear the band prior to buying new stuff, either in performance or rehearsal, and talk to them?
Different bands and MDs have varying expectations regarding trom sections in brass bands. Some are are bit more 'orchestral' like the PJBE you referenced, some want a sound that can really cut through (all the saxhorns and tubas), and everywhere in between. Some use large equipment, some medium.
It's a personal thing, but I often felt that brass bands play loud a bit too much, and not always to the room. I heard Flowers band on Saturday, and at the loud volumes the sound got a bit mushy in the hall (though of course they are a great band). I hadn't noticed that in previous visits with orchestras in the same hall. As others have intimated, the top bands can play incredibly quietly, so you have to be secure with that.
A double trigger bass is not absolutely necessary. I played doubles for decades. Now downsized for medical reasons. Just make sure a single will pull to E!
I'm not fond of Bach 42s in brass bands. Surrounded by all the conical instruments I like a brighter sound (not too bright) from the tenor bones. I prefer Bach 36 or Conn 88.
Am I a trombone player who plays euphonium, or a euphonium player who plays trombone?
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