Deciding on a new jazz horn

[Austin4203]

Right now I'm playing lead on a Yamaha ysl 354. I'm not very satisfied with it. Im looking for a budget horn and I have two options im seeing right now. A conn 18h coprion- $350 (1956)- and a conn 4h silver finish- $600 (just says vintage). Im aware that the 4h will probably be a better jazz horn, but its double the price and im wondering if the 18h would be a good compromise. Also if the 18h would even be an upgrade from the 354.
Also, if someone has a recommendation on a different horn that'd be great.

18h:
https://reverb.com/item/84228242-conn-1 ... T0QAvD_BwE
4h:
https://reverb.com/item/77795646-conn-4 ... T0QAvD_BwE

[Burgerbob]

I don't think either of those will be a huge upgrade.

[ithinknot]

18H would be different, not better, and also quite possibly worse, especially for lead.

That price for a 4H of that age and condition is no bargain, and a bad idea as a blind buy especially if you're not already sure that old .485 Conns are your idea of a good time.

If you look around, $600-750 can get you a worn but decent 6H/2B/3B/YSL653 and many, many others.

What specifically don't you like about your 354? Assuming it's in decent condition, you can do a lot worse, even with a bigger budget...

[Nolankberk]

I see a lot of 2bs going on this site for really great prices, but there's probably a plethora of good horns that you can buy cheap. The king horns have the least variability in quality, so if you're buying online I think they would be a good choice. I heard that Doug Elliot won his airmen of note audition on a 354 though, so consider that.

[NotSkilledHere]

the 354 actually works pretty well as a small bore jazzy horn. what specifically is not satisfying you about it?

both 18h and 4h are great horns. but with very different sound profiles. the coprion 18h bell should be darker but the one example i have played before seemed to break apart at higher volumes. the 4h will definitely be brighter, regardless of if you get the lacquered or silver plated versions.

there was just a 4h on this forum for sale for $200 if i remember correctly so dont let the $600 price tag bully you out of a 4h if you that's what you want

4h's fell out of favor, but they were more or less competitors to the king 2b while the 6h was the competitor to the knig 3b.

the 18h coprion bell is elkhart era not to be confused with 18h's later on that are all yellow brass. the 18h is part of the Director line and essentially a direct competitor to a 354/353/352 more or less but with the fancy coprion bell.

There WERE versions of the 4h and 6h with coprion bells which were the 12h and 10h respectively, but those definitely command more money.

[harrisonreed]

3B!

[Austin4203]

18H would be different, not better, and also quite possibly worse, especially for lead.

That price for a 4H of that age and condition is no bargain, and a bad idea as a blind buy especially if you're not already sure that old .485 Conns are your idea of a good time.

If you look around, $600-750 can get you a worn but decent 6H/2B/3B/YSL653 and many, many others.

What specifically don't you like about your 354? Assuming it's in decent condition, you can do a lot worse, even with a bigger budget...

Yeah i figured that might be as much. My horns slide is maybe a 6/10 at best and comparing to alot of other horns ive played it just doesnt feel as good to play and doesnt have the timbre or stability im looking for.

[lmalewic]

Yamaha makes a 897Z with a .500 bore slide. It’s the horn I use for my small bore work. They don’t advertise it but it’s an option they offer and you can order it through a Yamaha dealer. I believe it’s called a 897Z 500. Great for lead and other commercial music.

[Digidog]

Used Yamaha small bores, are what I'd be looking at.

For a budget of $200-600, you really should try what you buy or have really good options for returns, or you could easily find yourself stuck with a dud (for one reason or the other). Bargains in that price range are not always what they seem.

For slightly more than, or around, $600 you could get a decent 2B, a used Yamaha 695, 691, 697 or 891 and 897 and I'd take one of those before an old Conn of uncertain condition.

But as for all used purchases, I recommend to try before you buy or assure solid returns conditions.

[BGuttman]

Before I spent heavy coin on another horn I'd look into slide repair. Or you could just get another Yamaha 354. It's a better horn than an 18H Director.

If you look at my Avatar I'm playing a Martin Committee from around 1950. I think I paid $400 for it. Great lead horn. There are other interesting horns that you should be able to find used for not too much money. Certainly less than the $600 they are asking for the 4H.

If you have your heart set on a Coprion (it's pure copper made by an electroplating process) there are a number of Conn models to look for: 10H, 12H, and (I think) 76H. Coprion has some interesting (read "different") tonal responses from yellow or gold brass which may make it difficult to blend with normal brass instruments.

[Kingfan]

I just had a thought - is it the horn, or your horn/mouthpiece interaction? I didn't like small bores much until I got the right mouthpiece for my embouchure and mouth structure. A new mouthpiece is cheaper than a new horn too!