How does one become a good teacher for kids?

[tbdana]

The question is in the title.

I can teach college music majors and adult students, and anyone who is serious about playing trombone. Not a problem. I know how to find and correct weak areas and improve them, and I know how to generally move a player forward overall.

But how to teach kids, I haven't a clue. The vast majority of kid students aren't serious and will never be serious. Kids who won't practice, don't improve much, and don't have trombone as a priority in their lives. How do you approach that without having an "I don't care that you don't care; I'll just check out, sit here for the hour, and take the paltry money" attitude?

And even with kids who do care, what track to you take and how do you get them to a point of basic competence? How do you keep them motivated in this time when everyone gets a participation trophy, everyone needs to be coddled, and everyone is allergic to tough love even when it's most deserved?

A 14-year old kid shows up late to his lesson without having practiced at all that week. He lies and says he has practiced, but it's obvious he hasn't, and he appears to have no interest in working at it but just wants to be good without putting in the necessary effort. I'd want to just set fire to that kid and burn him down to his Crocs because he's just wasting my time and his. But short of just dropping him, what do you do to actually motivate him and teach him how to play, or in the alternative, get through that kid's lessons without slicing your own wrists?

[Nomsis]

I think the best option is to use the time you have to practise together with as much time with the instrument on his mouth as possible until the last minute is over and don't waste much time talking or waiting when he gets tired. If he comes late don't complain but simply make him hurry up getting ready for the first note. So basically, better he practices once a week than never... This way he might get to the flow of practising and he might feel what it is like to play the trombone and that practising would help increase the fun or maybe not for him? than he will find it out this way as well. But don't take it personally and start ranting about the situation or asking why he didn't practise or why he comes late or something like this. But you can make sure he knows you don't believe him when he tells you he did practise. And don't take it personally, just use the time as best as possible.

This is what I did in a similar case.

[ghmerrill]

So the first question here is -- given what you say: Why in the world would you be inclined towards teaching kids at all?

But if you're really asking about to handle students that just won't work, then ...

Start each student with a "trial period" that's clearly described to the student and his/her/its parents in terms of goals and requirements. A continuing teaching arrangement is dependent on successful completion of the trial period. Then stick with it. And also maybe incorporate periodic (3 month, 6 month, whatever) reviews for the same purpose. Use a periodic (after each lesson or whatever seems reasonable) "report card". Parents will want this. Just make this absolutely clear (in writing) from the beginning. That will also make any issues as emotionally detached as possible.

Don't let that problematic student waste your time for any longer than the trial period requires (and don't allow him and his parents to waste their time either). You'll be better for this, and so will he and his parents. You commit yourself to a few (however many you're willing to give as part of the trial period) lessons, and no more. If you don't have clear requirements that everyone knows about going in, it's hard to get out. If you want your life and teaching to work on the basis of goals, learning, and meeting those goals, this is the way. It's the only way. THAT's no different with kids than with adults.

Also, stop complaining about participation trophies, coddling, motivation, and the lack of tough love if you -- THE TEACHER, who can actually control these things -- won't enforce the necessary discipline. So maybe you get to be known as "that nasty trombone b*tch". But then maybe you get some motivated and rewarding students.

[harrisonreed]

When I taught I would drop students that did that more than two times in 6 months, say. Obviously, it's going to happen with kids, especially kids who work and do all kinds of clubs, but once it becomes a pattern I would drop them. Teaches them (and their parents) a better lesson than putting up with their bull and trying to be "a good teacher".

I would tell them, "I'm sorry, but I'm taking this very seriously, and you're not putting in any real effort. I'm here to make progress with you and get the work done, but you don't seem to be. I think you're a good person and maybe you just have too much other stuff going on, and that is OK. If you want to continue through the end of the period we agreed on (if doing prepaid lessons) of course we can, but I have no issues refunding XYZ and we can just call it with this lesson. If not here is the number for [insert babysitter trombone teacher here], who I think you'll hit it off with!"

I had one kid kind of break down, not crying but you could see I hit him hard, and a few weeks later he genuinely wanted lessons again. It was night and day really, and he ended up really putting in a lot of effort. He didn't want Babysitter Trombone Teacher, he didn't want to suck, and giving up hurt his pride. Good kid, learned a good lesson.

For other kids, they really don't care about something as dorky as the trombone, and that's totally okay. They don't need to suffer unless their 'rents force them to. You definitely don't need to suffer.

In some cases, teaching kids is literally being a babysitter. If you want or need to get paid to do that, it's better to just babysit them and joke around for the lesson, and they might actually learn more about life that way. In other cases lessons are a forced extracurricular, and the kid might either be into it not. If they're into it, you do your best. It's pretty rare that lessons for kids under, say, 16 are something the kid actively pursued. When you got someone who is 16+ contacting you, not through their parents, but because they got your number through their director and they want lessons, they will probably be a great student that you need to motivate the right way.

The key with the kids who eventually like music and want to get better is to find out what kind of music they want to play. The repertoire for low ability levels is really terrible, and if the kid just wants to play Disney Princess music, don't make them play Rochut -- help them learn how to "sing" those Disney Princess tunes on the trombone with inflection like in the movie. They actually learn a much more advanced skill and don't even realize it. In fact, I think the repertoire issue really sums up the whole issue with teaching kids -- the rare classical music they may want to replicate is likely far too advanced, hot cross buns is boring as all get out, and making "movie" tune books sound good is actually a skill that most college level students aren't even capable of because they aren't *really* working on a commercial vocal style.

[tbdana]

So the first question here is -- given what you say: Why in the world would you be inclined towards teaching kids at all?

Four reasons:

1. I've been asked by a high school band director if I would be a private teacher for his trombone students.

2. The income.

3. I'm a player and known as such, but it would be nice to become known as a teacher here, too. I teach a couple adult students, but getting known in the region as a private teacher for all comers would be nice.

4. To the trombonists in this region who grew up taking lessons from a local teacher and who still play as adults (amateur or pro), their childhood teachers remain beloved figures who were influential in their lives. I would love to make that kind of difference in someone's life, if there are any such future adult players to be found and the culture hasn't changed so much that such an experience would remain forever elusive.

[imsevimse]

This is a very difficult question as a teacher because you have to approach every young student different. It is also probably different if you are a teacher in the public music school partly payed for by tax or if you give private lessons. If private lessons then you can do as you please. In the example with the 14 year old student who didn't practice I think best is to let him struggle through most of what he was supposed to have practiced. It will then be obvious that he hasn't practiced. You and him then start practice in the lesson what he should have practiced at home. This way the lesson will be you teach him how to practice. No need to be harsh, you could even tell him that this lesson is to prepare better on how to practice better at home. You do not need to go through everything. You could stop at one point an tell "it's not much point to go through everything now, better to save the rest until next time". Since it is a private student you could expect more from him, because every lesson is fully payed by his parents. You should expect him to practice. The same if you are a teacher at a school with a music program.

In a public music school, like the ones we have in Sweden where I worked you have to adjust to the goals of the school. You might not believe this but the first goal in Sweden in our public music schools isn't to make a student fluent on an instrument, not even to "learn" an instrument. The goal could be much broader "to increase interest in music in general, to educate someone to be a good listener of music, to educate in the music traditions of our culture, to educate in traditional non commercial music, and one of the tools to do that is an instrument". When it comes to the actual instrument the point could be to make a student familiar with the specific instrument. No need to make everyone a pro musician, even though this probably is what some teachers have as personal goals for their best students. It isn't even sure they have had the choice to choose the instrument they play themselfs. Certain instruments are so popular that there might be a que. If you are a student at the school it gives you an advantage if you are 'in" and then you can bypass the que. This means you might get students that are not that motivared and just take lessons on a less popular instrument to bypass the cue and start with the instrument they really want to play in half a year. In some shools the teachers choose what instrument the student shall play (at least from start). Each school decides how to run the school but in reality it is the headmaster and the local politicians. Politicians want the school to be as cheap as possible and to reach as many children as possible because this is to make best use of the taxpayers money. They often cut the budget which means the fees are raised. Since it is mostly financed by tax the fees can not be expensive because then only the wealthy can afford and it's no point to provide for a public music school only for the wealthy. This way politicians dictate a lot of how we do things, even though they do not realize this. If you loose your students you will eventually loose your job. As you have guessed best for all is to find a balance. If students do not learn they will eventually quit. If you demand to much from them to early they will quit. If the students don't like you they will quit. To make them stay they need to get friends who play and do concerts to get apploads and feel appreciated. They need to connect with their instrument. If they do this they will not quit and they will invest to learn. They probably need to play in an orchestra so this becomes one of the primary goals for a teacher who wants to stay as a teacher because this is where all these things take care of itself. You see, this has very little to do with actually "teaching" music. We who have get as far as to a professional level are exceptions. We found motivation and then we started to seek and we found our teachers. In the public music school our first goal is to make them interested because in many cases they don't know why they are there in the first place.

/Tom

[ghmerrill]

1. I've been asked by a high school band director if I would be a private teacher for his trombone students.

Not good enough. People ask all kinds of things.

2. The income.

Seriously? Having trouble getting by on Social Security? I didn't have that impression.

3. I'm a player and known as such, but it would be nice to become known as a teacher here, too. I teach a couple adult students, but getting known in the region as a private teacher for all comers would be nice.

Ah ... Self image. Ego. Good enough. "For all comers" may not be the most reasonable goal. It's like one of those community bands that has no membership requirements. If you have no requirements, you can't complain about the results.

4. To the trombonists in this region who grew up taking lessons from a local teacher and who still play as adults (amateur or pro), their childhood teachers remain beloved figures who were influential in their lives. I would love to make that kind of difference in someone's life, if there are any such future adult players to be found and the culture hasn't changed so much that such an experience would remain forever elusive.

Definitely good enough. I can count on the fingers of one hand (well, maybe two hands) the number of students/interns/colleagues for whom I've made that kind of difference over a teaching/mentoring period of about 35 years. But those few fingers really count, even if it averages out to only about 1 every 3.5 years. Now that I think about it, that's not so bad.

[WilliamLang]

The big question for me is: is the lesson about the student or about you? If it's about you, and your ability to get through it, then it's not good for anyone. Students can also feel when their teacher doesn't want to be there. Getting kids that don't practice and aren't going to is frustrating, but that's their journey. You can politely decline to teach them when it becomes clear, and if you don't have that opportunity, time to make lemonade from those lemons.

I view teaching as trying to keep a door open for as long as possible. You can't shove anyone through that door, but letting them decide to walk through it and supporting them either way just feels better to me personally.

[chouston3]

I think the most important thing you can convey to a kid is a love of music.

If you have a kid who does not practice, then play duets with them. Let them hear you play so they can get that sound in their head.

Let them hear good recordings that might motivate them.

I agree with Will. Keeping the door open as long as possible is an excellent approach.

[ghmerrill]

It's hard to take a position that there's anything wrong with "as long as possible" or "as long as reasonable". But "as long as possible" is often incompatible with "as long as reasonable" and can affect a number of related things such as time that might otherwise be devoted to more students, or to students who will benefit from the teaching being offered.

There are also costs to devoting time to a student who isn't learning -- and who might learn with a different teacher, or perhaps whom you're just unwilling to recognize as a student who shows up for reasons quite different from a personal desire to learn. There are costs at least to that student in continuing down such a path, and there are costs to other students who might be there in his/her place. And such a student might in fact benefit from a different teacher with different methods -- in which case that might be an excellent recommendation for a teacher to give. There is no unique approach to good teaching -- though there certainly is no shortage of pretty bad approaches to teaching.

In addition, we need to be careful of adopting a music-oriented teaching/learning analog of Socrates' "To know the good is to do the good," and consider a comparable analog of Aristotle's debunking of that view. Similarly, while you can convey to someone your love of music, somehow instilling in them their own love of music is a much more daunting task -- one which depends very much on them, and one to which they may be resistant -- for reasons unknown or incomprehensible to you. As I'm pretty sure we all know, not every teacher can successfully teach every student -- for one reason or another.

[TomWest]

There’s a lot of talk about the trombone students lack of motivation to practice. So, while reading all the opinions, just for a moment I was the 14 year old taking drum lessons. I had drum heroes, Ringo Starr, Charlie Watts and other rock drummers. I wanted to play like them and my teacher, who was a union musician and played a lot of jazz gigs, spent the last few minutes of every lesson covering the stuff I wanted to go over. That came after considerable time on rudimentary skills.
After a while he introduced me to drummers like Joe Morello, Cozy Cole, Buddy Rich. That was a big turning point in my musical journey. Joe Morello is my “drum hero” to this day.
So who’s your student’s trombone hero? Does he have one? Pop music doesn’t have much trombone. Maybe turn him on to Tower of Power, Chicago, I dunno, a little Trombone Shorty? Something that will light his fire and make him really want to play trombone.
Or is it a mom and dad thing. They want him to play trombone, but he doesn’t care.

[afugate]

A few of thoughts from my time working with younger kids.

1. Why are they taking lessons?
If they are there because their parents or their band director is making them take lessons, then you have to find a reason for them to be there. Finding trombone heroes can help. Christopher Bill is one that many kids enjoy and idolize.

This is often made more difficult by band programs that do nothing to utilize better players. Finding (or forming) outside ensembles can help. (Note: This isn't necessarily a condemnation of the director(s). That's generally what happens at schools where most kids can't access individual instruction.)

2. How well do they play?
For younger players, especially beginners, a fundamental problem is that they sound awful - and they know it. If they work hard, they'll move to sounding merely bad. With more hard work, they will finally sound decent... and they'll begin to have fun. I stress with beginner students that it's like learning to talk and walk. They are taking baby steps. For example, they'll be frustrated about something and I'll ask, "How well does a 3 year old talk? They've been talking for 2 years - they should be great, right?"

For my beginners, we celebrate milestones. Things that we as mature players recognize, but beginners won't. Often times, I'll end a lesson with a round of "monkey see, monkey do" where I'll play something and have the student figure out how to play it. It's good ear training and the kids like it. But we won't do it if they weren't prepared for their lesson. A lot of my lesson planning with younger kids is about rewarding positive behaviors I want them to repeat.

3. They want to make music
Young players don't sign up to learn fundamentals. Most of them enjoy easy play-along pop tune collections. I encourage parents to get these. We can use them to focus on all kinds of basic stuff. Intonation, dynamics, articulation, rhythms, slide accuracy, etc. (Yes, we also work on fundamentals.)

--Andy in OKC

[ghmerrill]

1. Why are they taking lessons?
If they are there because their parents or their band director is making them take lessons, then you have to find a reason for them to be there.

Do you? Is that really YOUR responsibility? I guess it is if you view your responsibility as being primarily to the parent -- which isn't totally unreasonable since they're the one paying you. But you also have a responsibility to the student that's more difficult to characterize. And that's real tricky because, very simply, there are times and circumstances when that particular student maybe shouldn't be there with you. And there are times when it might be appropriate for you to put up with a student who is being "made" to take lessons, but doesn't want to. Sometimes that may work. But some of those situations just can't be overcome with pedagogy and motivation on your part, and you have to be willing to respond to that in a reasonable way. I speak from a parent's perspective, and one whose three children each took to a different path to instrumental music.

Child 1: My wife (a piano player from a very early age) decided that our oldest child (male) should begin piano lessons at age 5. Now this was a very good kid, intelligent and inquisitive. Not at all rebellious, and quite disciplined. He knew how to get through some tough stuff, having been through open heart surgery already twice at that age. Otherwise, just a regular 5-year-old boy. He went through several lessons and then just totally rebelled. He just wasn't ready, and nothing was going to make him ready. Trying to compel him left him with a very negative attitude regarding instrumental music for years. You don't want that kind of outcome.

In the sixth grade he came home one day and said that they'd had a presentation by the band director and that he wanted to join the band. Quite a surprise. So what was he thinking of playing? He wasn't sure what it was called, but it was long and made of wood. Oops. So he started on oboe and a year later moved to a bassoon. We then managed to get him a good used Fox from a master's student at Northwestern who was getting her degree and moving up to a Heckel. He played through high school (taking lessons from a bassoonist in the NC Symphony for a couple of years). He then drifted away from it some time after that.

Child 2:
Another boy. My wife wisely waited to start him on piano until he was a bit older (around 10 if memory serves), and it stuck. In the usual 6-th grade situation he decided to play clarinet and took lessons for some years from a grad student in the music department at UNC. He hasn't played in years, but still has the clarinet and thinks he may get back to it at some time. He is also (mid-40s) working on re-learning piano, and his son (age 10) is doing that with him. That son/grandson is also committed to joining band next year and has decided to start on trumpet. He's confident that this will be a lot of fun because he can already read music in both treble and bass clefs and he already knows how to play trumpet: "You blow into it and push the buttons." I think he may have something of a (at least brief) surprise about that, but will get past it pretty quickly.

Child 3:
Daughter. At age 5 she demanded to learn flute. I said "Okay, here's the head joint. Put your hand over the end and blow like this. When you can get a decent tone, we'll move on." Fifteen minutes later she was back. I said "Well, there are a couple keys you can't reach, but let's go." I taught her for a about a year, and then we moved to NC and she started taking lessons from an Asst. Prof. at UNC. She played through high school, but fell away from it in college. During that time I replaced the old Armstrong student flute with a Yamaha open-hole model which she still has. At some point (she's in her 40s now) I think she'll get back to it. We went to a couple of good master classes together when she was in middle school. But otherwise, life is now taking up a lot of her time.

Three different stories and paths among children. If you're going to teach children, you have to be prepared for that sort of variability, and there's probably more common sense involved than commitment to any kind of pedagogy and lesson tricks. Sometimes a bit of coddling may be involved, but only temporarily or it's hopeless. Sometimes you can provide motivation, sometimes not. And above all ... remember being a kid yourself, and that kids are wildly different from one another and developing at different speeds in different ways with different (often ephemeral) interests. Then just do your best and avoid making it torture for anyone: you, the kid, or the parents.

[Doug Elliott]

Good post from Andy.

A few of thoughts from my time working with younger kids.

1. Why are they taking lessons?
...you have to find a reason for them to be there....

2. How well do they play?
For younger players, especially beginners, a fundamental problem is that they sound awful -
..... Often times, I'll end a lesson with a round of "monkey see, monkey do" where I'll play something and have the student figure out how to play it. It's good ear training and the kids like it. ...

3. They want to make music
Young players don't sign up to learn fundamentals. Most of them enjoy easy play-along pop tune collections.
...
--Andy in OKC

(1) Yes, you need to create an atmosphere that makes them want to be there.
(2) You need to know enough about mechanics to get them sounding good fast. Playng does not have to be hard, even for a beginner, if you really know what to teach and how to diagnose problems.
(3) Whether it's finding books, writing something out yourself, or playing by ear, get them playing stuff they already know and like. In addition to introducing them to other music and useful exercises.

[LeTromboniste]

I see a big a problem with the premise.

There's nothing wrong with being a good teacher for college/advanced students and not for kids or beginners. Plenty of teachers out there are a good fit to teach beginners but wouldn't necessarily do the best job at the higher education level.

It's never about you and how you want to teach and your time or frustration. It's about the student and what they need to be able to progress.

I personally have no interest in teaching kids, every time I've done it I thoroughly disliked it, and so it just wouldn't be in the students' best interests. Just don't have the personality and the passion for it. But if I wanted to do it, I would enroll in an elementary music pedagogy programme and learn the right tools and strategies.

[LeTromboniste]

A few of thoughts from my time working with younger kids.

1. Why are they taking lessons?
If they are there because their parents or their band director is making them take lessons, then you have to find a reason for them to be there. Finding trombone heroes can help. Christopher Bill is one that many kids enjoy and idolize.

This is often made more difficult by band programs that do nothing to utilize better players. Finding (or forming) outside ensembles can help. (Note: This isn't necessarily a condemnation of the director(s). That's generally what happens at schools where most kids can't access individual instruction.)

2. How well do they play?
For younger players, especially beginners, a fundamental problem is that they sound awful - and they know it. If they work hard, they'll move to sounding merely bad. With more hard work, they will finally sound decent... and they'll begin to have fun. I stress with beginner students that it's like learning to talk and walk. They are taking baby steps. For example, they'll be frustrated about something and I'll ask, "How well does a 3 year old talk? They've been talking for 2 years - they should be great, right?"

For my beginners, we celebrate milestones. Things that we as mature players recognize, but beginners won't. Often times, I'll end a lesson with a round of "monkey see, monkey do" where I'll play something and have the student figure out how to play it. It's good ear training and the kids like it. But we won't do it if they weren't prepared for their lesson. A lot of my lesson planning with younger kids is about rewarding positive behaviors I want them to repeat.

3. They want to make music
Young players don't sign up to learn fundamentals. Most of them enjoy easy play-along pop tune collections. I encourage parents to get these. We can use them to focus on all kinds of basic stuff. Intonation, dynamics, articulation, rhythms, slide accuracy, etc. (Yes, we also work on fundamentals.)

--Andy in OKC

Good post from Andy.

A few of thoughts from my time working with younger kids.

1. Why are they taking lessons?
...you have to find a reason for them to be there....

2. How well do they play?
For younger players, especially beginners, a fundamental problem is that they sound awful -
..... Often times, I'll end a lesson with a round of "monkey see, monkey do" where I'll play something and have the student figure out how to play it. It's good ear training and the kids like it. ...

3. They want to make music
Young players don't sign up to learn fundamentals. Most of them enjoy easy play-along pop tune collections.
...
--Andy in OKC

(1) Yes, you need to create an atmosphere that makes them want to be there.
(2) You need to know enough about mechanics to get them sounding good fast. Playng does not have to be hard, even for a beginner, if you really know what to teach and how to diagnose problems.
(3) Whether it's finding books, writing something out yourself, or playing by ear, get them playing stuff they already know and like. In addition to introducing them to other music and useful exercises.

Also, this.

[OneTon]

Herb Rankin told me that he was only going to teach in the
KC Plaza area after several years of private lessons. I was the only student he invited to make the transfer from North KC. There was no problem getting me to practice. I don’t know if my parents would have volunteered to make the shlep every week. My father took a job in North Africa and that was that.

Perhaps due to adverse childhood experiences or maybe I really am just that dumb, it usually took me two weeks to learn what other students might master in one week. This situation persists. Once I have mastered something I don’t lose it. I received the invitation anyway. Herb Rankin and Bill Drybread, Mr. Rankin’s summer vacation sub, were my touchstone of sanity. I really appreciate what I learned. Incidentally, both Mr. Rankin and my later university professor made the exact same comment regarding my standard rate of progress.

Boundaries might be a consideration. Three lessons without practicing would mandate probation. If a subsequent lesson was not prepared for, the student and parents could be requested to return when the student has time to practice. This would have to be shared and communicated prior process definition: Dignity and respect, professionalism and no drama. It would get the teacher out of baby sitter mode.

[JLivi]

I'm fortunate to teach in a school district with band programs that have a history of being great. I think I've stumbled and fallen into my own success. One big thing that I noticed about myself is that I treat these high school students like adults (or college students). That's all these kids are really looking for, in life in general too.

For the top high school players, I just treat them like a college student. Concepts will take longer for them to grasp, but it's the same stuff (long tones, lip slurs, scales, etudes, etc).

For the students that don't care as much, I try to get to the bottom of why they don't care and why they're taking lessons to begin with. I'm a pretty honest (some might say brash and abrasive) person, so it doesn't take long for someone who doesn't care to either start caring or quit my studio. Some of my favorite students though were not ones that cared about music, but we connected on what their passion was. So along the way I've watched some kids accomplish some really cool things outside of band, and I was there to celebrate with them for 2 minutes at the start of a lesson (i.e. Eagle Scouts, Scholastic bowl, sports accomplishment, etc).

I'm there to make better musicians, trombone players and people. If they can grow emotionally because of our lessons that's a win for me. 95% of my students won't go on to major in music, but they will go on to talk about how important band was in their development. And if they mention to their friends and/or family that they had a dope teacher, I'm cool with that.

[Wilktone]

In addition to the many excellent thoughts already posted...

But how to teach kids, I haven't a clue. The vast majority of kid students aren't serious and will never be serious. Kids who won't practice, don't improve much, and don't have trombone as a priority in their lives. How do you approach that without having an "I don't care that you don't care; I'll just check out, sit here for the hour, and take the paltry money" attitude?

Sometimes young students just need someone to be patient and continue to encourage them over longer periods of time. You might find later that they value your lessons, even though they didn't always or usually prepare for them.

Try asking yourself what your patience level would be for a paid gig where you don't enjoy the music you're performing or the musicians you're playing with. Do you try your best to treat it outwardly like it's amazing music and take the money? Do you refuse to play that gig the next time you get the call? You're going to have to set your priorities and maybe that doesn't include teaching younger students.

And even with kids who do care, what track to you take and how do you get them to a point of basic competence? How do you keep them motivated in this time when everyone gets a participation trophy, everyone needs to be coddled, and everyone is allergic to tough love even when it's most deserved?

Tough love" is fine, but positive reinforcement works best for all students, regardless of age. If you're looking to get students motivated, intrinsic motivation (I want to practice because I enjoy this activity) is better than extrinsic motivation (I want to practice so that my teacher will be proud of me). Refer to some of the above suggestions.

A 14-year old kid shows up late to his lesson without having practiced at all that week. He lies and says he has practiced, but it's obvious he hasn't, and he appears to have no interest in working at it but just wants to be good without putting in the necessary effort.

School teachers know that getting parents on board goes a huge way in a student's education. Talk to the student's parents about it. Talk to the student's band director and cater lessons to things they are working on in band and what their friends are working on.

When I have a lesson with any student, regardless of age, who comes unprepared for the lesson I will take the lesson time to practice with them. Often times students don't practice or don't practice well because they don't know how to. Teach them how to self-evaluate and how to effectively practice something for consistency.

With adult students who come in unprepared too often I have no problem explaining that they are wasting both of our time and sending them out to go practice during this time instead. With a younger student I will simply continue to practice with them and try to teach them how to practice. Again, it might be frustrating to me but down the road they may just appreciate what I did for them later. By no means do I mean you should just give up and tell them they are doing a good job. Be honest, but don't be mean about it.

I'd want to just set fire to that kid and burn him down to his Crocs because he's just wasting my time and his. But short of just dropping him, what do you do to actually motivate him and teach him how to play, or in the alternative, get through that kid's lessons without slicing your own wrists?

So I understand that you're being hyperbolic, but if this is such a drag on you do you really need the pay? My personal philosophy is that I don't get paid enough to play and teach that if I'm not enjoying it enough I don't take on that student or play that gig. I know enough other players and teachers that I can always recommend someone else who might be a better fit.

Dave

[tbdana]

There is a treasure trove of advice here. It's not practical to respond to everyone, but please keep it coming. I'm reading everything and taking it in, evaluating my own tolerance levels and skill at the non-music parts of it, and figuring out an approach and set of boundaries that I hope will work for me.

This thread is invaluable. Thank you, and give me more!

I could also use some nuts and bolts stuff, like what books or programs you find most effective for middle and high school students who aren't the best in their school bands/orchestras, and how you progress them through.

[slideandtraps]

From a fellow with forty years in film, television and animation, eight as full time art university faculty and online associate director, here are some tips I found useful in teaching first year undergrads, just over the fence of high school.

The most important tool I learned: listening. That's for both teacher and student.

Students are listening in conscious and subconscious ways. High school is a young age to have a great impact on them. It's less job oriented for high school vs college and more base life skills and for both, inspiration. I like the comment above about teaching a love of music in Sweden. I like that.

I remember in my high school, first class, civics, my first teacher wrote on the board "Question Authority." Cool school. I bet he didn't think anyone would remember that. I said nothing at the time. But I did remember that for decades in a nice way and I would teach my students to question what I tell them and dialogue with me. In film history I would suggest a book but check one's self on that perspective as there can other inventors we've forgotten.

What one says can stick with young students for a lifetime - even when they give no acknowledgement.
That is a very early time to help turn the wheel toward what they just might embrace.

A challenge for students today that I didn't have in the 'drive over or call on the Ma Bell analog telephone system world' is students today can struggle with both their persona in person with peers and their online persona in who they also appear to be. That can stress them a lot.

In advertising to reach someone is called "cutting through the clutter." A tip is they will open in their own ways for a teacher who listens and takes interest in what they enjoy.

I certainly found myself working twice as hard to figure that out in my first undergrad classes, coming from grads and thesis projects. The undergrads were more collective as a group in being quiet, but listening.

One technique I found useful was to ask them what they liked to open the class. I'd ask: tell me what movies you or tv shows where interesting this week. As they shared, I would find them on the laptop.

For music, it can be what music/songs do they like? Is it orchestral or the latest Billie Eilish or Aurora song? In even a quick fake book way, teaching a few bars can hook them, or how about a first hand story, wow.

I read in the opening post this is to help a colleague so the agenda is likely very set, but there can ways to reach the students, in private tutor or groups and then say alright enough seriousness, now to the fun and pick up that struggling part the school is trying to teach them.

I found it useful to take a few notes and later research what the students shared and bring it up in the next class.

That shows the teacher was listening. I remember a segment by Fred Rogers on his early time with children and how they were testing him to see he could speak in their language. One child asked him about a doll where the arm had come off in the washing machine. The children all stopped to watch Fred - he said this was the moment of seeing if he would pass their test. He thought about that and said, you, know I would worry about that too - can our arms come off? Can that happen to us? He found they had a simpler fear to understand a concern an adult would not have for a teacher to reassure them.

For high school, the collective peer pressure and online persona pressure to meet an ideal can be potent to limit a student to find a way to help them past a difficulty. I can see that in the instrument being like their voice and finding confidence.

That brings up a second tip: repetition. In Latin, a popular phrase is "Repetitio est mater studiorum."
Repetition is the mother of learning. Yes, once, I've had a young student say in evals - part of my job to read dept evals - that I didn't need to repeat as much. Some students listen more then others but younger ages can be very... crickets... to break the silence.

That idea of repetition works to ask students at longer intervals. What were we talking about... I would ask by the end of the class or the next class or a couple down the way. There would be that silence, (find patience as teacher to wait just a moment longer) prompts to remember, some remember review in quick outline form.

This helps to move the ideas from short term memory to longer term memory. Paul Pimsleur, linquist, would use that concept of intervals of questions in his so named language courses and I've borrowed that concept in life.

While on that topic of Latin - and I'm not an expert but I like these sayings:

In Profundo: Cognitio, popular in deep sea diving to mean In the depths: knowledge.

Professionals have an enormous depth of knowledge and all it can take is that first hook to get a young mind to explore the arts, any topic, in this case music at their own pace. That's whether in that class or years later just like in my first civics class or the band classes or music classes in my life.

Third tip is students can be visual, auditory, tactile or feeling based in how they most effectively communicate.

It might be the sound, the rhythm, and it can be visual for some to learn. A photo or cell video of the composer or singer or a performance showing the passion of the artist can stick with them. A visual way to explain notes. I need to see it on the piano keyboard as my method. I remember Sting wrote about his choice in college one summer to force himself to read music.

In film, I'd try to use multi-modalities across classes to be sure no one was lost. Once I played John Williams conducting Empire Strikes Back with the Vienna Philharmonic. It was not on his agenda, but they practiced themselves to convince him to include it. Watching the composer conduct with his grand experience in his hands and eyes and body language and the communion with the orchestra and how he turned to first violin at the end with a silent "Wow" during the standing ovation - not common for such a venue. I wanted my film students to see art in other fields and feel that power of expression in music.

On the challenging side, some students will be very stressed and at younger ages, it's as much about monitoring for abuse, the takeaway being students can be very stressed as we all can find at times in life. High school is also about first relationships with much in their mind and hearts. A tip is to keep a cool head. I would remind myself the old adage to "park the ego at the door" and stay positive. That has paid dividends in a few times with one student, a former teacher actually, saying they would pay that patience forward.

Satcho's: Accentuate the Positive. Cool story there is to tell students how he locked out the president of ABC records from the recording session of What a Wonderful World as the exec wanted Satchmo to play it in an uptempo pop style - ugh. There were repercussions on domestic sales as political retribution for that choice, but in the end his vision is with us to this day. Bless him.

Well, hopefully, this has been helpful from someone who retired from academia to get back into production. As my old mentor and chair at CalArts said, we all as teachers need to revitalize in the industry at times.

BTW I think it's pretty cool and an honor to teach high school if you so choose that.
What a Wonderful Gift, both ways.

Happiness,
Dennis

[Savio]

First of all, so many good tips above. I believe first of all beeing yourself. Kids notice if we pretend. Not an easy question this, we just have to jump in it and try to develop our self as teacher. Every kid is different so I try to learn how each kid are, and then try to adjust my teaching to fit. If they don't have motivation I try to find a way to get them going. Maybe have them listen music/player's, maybe find their strengths and encourage them to build further. If someone is not prepared we try to go through that piece together in the lesson and show them they can develop in just a few minutes. It might give them inspiration to do the same at home. Sometimes we meet kids where the parensts force them to start playing. But the kid really want to do something else. Then I advice the parents to let the kid explore his real interests. And maybe come back later. A good advice is not to teach them too much in a lesson. Set som very few goals. Kids want to play and have fun. So I integrate that, but real motivation is when they see them self develop if they put a little work into it. As a young player I got motivated to practice when I listen George Roberts as background music in a supermarket 40 years ago. We never know what can trigger a kid to play. I still try to figure out how to teach, so we just have to try our best. Many good tips here. (sorry my english)

Leif

[hyperbolica]

I didn't read all the responses, so this has probably been mentioned before. I would just change tack and try something maybe unconventional. Get some of those tacky trombone duet books that use movie or pop music. Or just write some yourself. If he won't get inspired to practice, maybe he'll start to understand music better through playing with other people. Maybe you could get several problem students together and play trios or quartets. Playing in ensemble is really the big picture goal anyway, and that's way more interesting than playing some 150+ year old etudes.

[ghmerrill]

A good advice is not to teach them too much in a lesson.

This is an excellent point -- and more generally, just don't try to teach them too much. I always had a tendency to try to "overteach" my own children (I suspect that parents often do this). With my grandchildren I'm backing WAY off on that.

[Wilktone]

A good advice is not to teach them too much in a lesson.

A guideline I've used for 30 minute elementary music lesson plans (mind you, class settings, not private lessons) is to plan three separate activities. For example:

1. Something to practice fundamentals, review materials already learned.

2. Something new, or something to push the class to get better at something.

3. A game-like activity.

You don't always make it through all three activities, but you can dangle the game-like activity as incentive to get some work accomplished first.

One of the advantages is that over time the procedure becomes familiar to the students. With younger students consistency is much more important.

With private lessons you can plan the lesson similarly. I have a younger trumpet student right now who struggles because he doesn't practice, but he's got a good ear and enjoys improvising. I usually set up a one chord vamp play-a-long on a scale/chord arpeggio that we work on earlier in the lesson. He can struggle with just playing the scale, but when we add the recorded rhythm section it is easier for him, and more fun.

Dave

[VJOFan]

Dave’s post reveals an important thing about teaching. One of the professors at my teacher’s college put it this way: “When people ask you what you teach, I hope you say, ‘I teach kids. I teach kids music.’ “ Dave’s strategies show a teacher thinking about the kids as kids and then finding a way to bring them along musically that fits them as best as possible.

Farther above, even harrison “firing” students was about dealing with the person, not the subject.

As long as a teacher is thinking about what the student needs in addition to whatever curriculum is on tap, there will be a basis for a productive relationship.

Glad to be reminded of this a few weeks out of getting back to the classroom for another year.

[JLivi]

I could also use some nuts and bolts stuff, like what books or programs you find most effective for middle and high school students who aren't the best in their school bands/orchestras, and how you progress them through.

I exclusively work out the following

High School
Schlossberg Daily Drills
Melodious Etudes (Rochut)
Technical Studies (Clarke)
I also use different worksheets that I created to work on scales, scale patterns, Lip Slurs and range exercises. Also, another great book is Brad Edwards Lip Slurs book.

Middle School
Beeler - Method for Trombone

I used to use the Rubank Methods Book, but have become frustrated with it. This past year my students all hit a wall on the exact same page. So I decided to switch to the Beeler as a recommendation from a friend. So I'm trying that out this year.

[afugate]

1. Why are they taking lessons?
If they are there because their parents or their band director is making them take lessons, then you have to find a reason for them to be there.

Do you? Is that really YOUR responsibility? I guess it is if you view your responsibility as being primarily to the parent -- which isn't totally unreasonable since they're the one paying you. But you also have a responsibility to the student that's more difficult to characterize. And that's real tricky because, very simply, there are times and circumstances when that particular student maybe shouldn't be there with you. And there are times when it might be appropriate for you to put up with a student who is being "made" to take lessons, but doesn't want to. Sometimes that may work. But some of those situations just can't be overcome with pedagogy and motivation on your part, and you have to be willing to respond to that in a reasonable way. I speak from a parent's perspective, and one whose three children each took to a different path to instrumental music.

I didn't state this as well as I should have. What I meant is that we need to help them find their own reasons to want to be there.

Three different stories and paths among children. If you're going to teach children, you have to be prepared for that sort of variability, and there's probably more common sense involved than commitment to any kind of pedagogy and lesson tricks. Sometimes a bit of coddling may be involved, but only temporarily or it's hopeless. Sometimes you can provide motivation, sometimes not. And above all ... remember being a kid yourself, and that kids are wildly different from one another and developing at different speeds in different ways with different (often ephemeral) interests. Then just do your best and avoid making it torture for anyone: you, the kid, or the parents.

I agree. Every child is different. Regarding the part I emphasized, I would perhaps say that we are more successful when we can help them discover their own motivation.

--Andy in OKC