Satellite Counter Weight?

[UrbanaDave]

https://butlertrombones.com/shop/satel ... er-weight/
Does anyone have experience with one of these? I am looking for something to balance a 1958 Olds Studio. It’s front heavy. I’m having a better time using some weighted/lead tape but am curious about the potential of a satellite counter weight.

[ghmerrill]

I think these things look really cool, they probably work well, and I'd be proud to have one. But at half the price (still seems like way too much), a Hickey's "Standard Trombone Counterweight" (https://www.hickeys.com/search.php?q=counterweight) should do the trick nicely. I have half of one zip-tied to my bass because that's all it needs and it was easy. Also, I bought that just before they recently replenished their stock, and it cost me half the current price.

I presume that Studio has "normal" braces on it (and not the "serpentine" ones my '47 Standard does). So the Hickey's product would either fit it or can easily be made to fit it with a little work either filing out the groove or using something to shim out the brace to fit the existing groove if it's too loose.

[OneTon]

A countweight is a counterweight. I had two olds studios and found stock counterweights for each that alleviated the weight and balance Butler’s solution is similar to Kuhnl and Hoyer and appears to be robust. K & H works fine. The guys at Butler are nice. Send them an email and find out the min/max diameter and don’t get carried away tightening to nut.

[UrbanaDave]

Thanks for the quick replies. Here's my current solution using weighted/lead tape by 3M wrapped around the top brace. The brace seems a bit thick to me. Perhaps about 7/16 of an inch?

The satellite weight seems to allow you to center (yaw) the weight. I wonder if anyone has found this to be helpful?

IMG_2060.jpeg

[muschem]

viewtopic.php?t=35913

FWIW, I believe the Olsens (Instrument Innovations) make the Butler satellite balancer as well (https://instrumentinnovations.com/satel ... -balancer/). They make different diameter clamps for their Ax Handles, to fit different brace sizes, so I'd imagine they could work out something that would fit the tuning slide brace on your Studio. They're also just really nice people and great to work with. I mentioned that the rod included with the Side Balancer wasn't quite long enough to help me balance a heavy sterling bell, and they sent me a set of longer rods to experiment with. The rods are easy enough to bend with the right tools, giving a lot of placement flexibility for the weight. Here's what I'm currently testing:

SideBalancer1.jpg

SideBalancer2.jpg

[Burgerbob]

I have one, it's very neat. I have tried it out on a couple horns.

On a straight horn, I think it would be overkill- there's not a ton to balance out, after all!

There's also two big drawbacks-
Want to have it really jut out to balance things out in that 2nd dimension?

1. It's not going to fit in a case anymore

2. You are probably going to clock yourself in the side of the head pretty seriously when you put the horn down

[AtomicClock]

at half the price (still seems like way too much), a Hickey's "Standard Trombone Counterweight" ... should do the trick nicely.

Another cheap option is to harvest one from a junker trombone -- your choice of counterweight styles. I see recent Olds auctions on shopgoodwill that closed around $10, plus $20 shipping. You'd still have to do your homework on crossbrace diameter.

[ghmerrill]

1. It's not going to fit in a case anymore

This was my major concern when (briefly) considering one -- along with the unpleasant alternative of having to "adjust" it to get it into the case and then again re-adjust it into playing position when I take it out. But I suppose that some cases might accommodate this better than others.

There are also things available (Amazon, various tool supply places) called "clamping collars" (or something similar) that can be bought in different sizes (hence weights) and inner diameters (to fit a trombone brace). Here's an example of one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001V ... =UTF8&th=1 This also lends a kind of cutting edge proletariat "industrial look" to the horn.

They go on and off easily and you can get multiple ones to get to just the right weight. And they don't take up much room. I was originally going to use these, but decided on the Hickey's as even simpler.

[muschem]

I'm sure it depends on the case, as well as the orientation you have the balancer in for optimal use. For me, it fits in my DAX NX-1S fine as-is without having to remove or adjust it:

SideBalancerCase.jpg

[Bassbonetyler]

I figured I might weight in - the Olsen version I picked up at ITF has helped me quite a bit with balancing the horn and how the weight rests on my hand with the axe handle. When I had the shorter ~45° rod, I could fit it in my Bonna bass case with no hiccups. I do have to take the rod out and store it in the case or my mute bag now that I use the longer hand bent one, but it isn’t bad enough to bother me yet.

The side to side adjustment has been nice to mess around with. As is, my bass is a little front heavy and the weight is very much oriented on the outside (left), but with the longer rod the balance is almost perfect. I can hold the horn up for 10-15 minutes (that is, without setting it down or resting the weight on my slide hand) without any uncomfortableness/mild pain due to a poorly healed wrist injury a while back vs the 5-7ish I could do pain free beforehand.

Tyler

[ghmerrill]

You'd still have to do your homework on crossbrace diameter.

Yes, but keep in mind that if your crossbrace is a smaller diameter than the weight is intended for you can "shim" it with something like Teflon plumber's tape. And if it's larger diameter that what the counterweight is made for, you can often open up the counterweight slot with a round file (or sandpaper around a dowel), or drill through the assembled counterweight with a larger drill bit. I do realize that some people won't have the tools to do things like that, but some will. And since these all seem to be brass (so soft metal), tooling them is fairly easy.

[UrbanaDave]

This is what I would love to find for my Olds Studio.
These pics come from the Brass Exchange archive of sold instruments.

IMG_2589.jpeg

IMG_2590.jpeg

[ghmerrill]

Well, you may be only dollars away. For anyone with a drill press and a milling machine, that would be trivial to make from a chunk of round brass bar stock. Probably less than a half hour of work if you don't have to turn down the stock on a lathe. I wonder what a machinist would quote you to just make that from scratch.

On the other hand, it's not functionally different from the Hickey's generic counterweight. If you're looking for function, the one is as good as the other. If you're looking for appearance -- well, that always seems to cost extra. If you're looking for a highly uncommon historical item, then ...

[UrbanaDave]

I stopped in Instrument Innovations today. They were incredibly accommodating for a place that was moving from one space to another. Everything was packed up in boxes, but Mike recommended I check out the smaller Side Balancer. It’s the smaller version of the Satellite.

https://instrumentinnovations.com/olsen-side-balancer/

Also, the stem and weight combo is easily removed from the clamp with an Allen wrench twist thus retaining your positioning while fitting the horn in a case. Finally, he said he can send me a small and medium weight instead of the large and medium as that would be a better fit for the Olds Studio. I like the lower price point too. Ordered one for playing with today. Also, a kind fellow Trombone Chat follower wrote to me about a possible line on some genuine Olds counterweights. Fingers crossed

[ghmerrill]

Also, the stem and weight combo is easily removed from the clamp with an Allen wrench twist

Or replace that Allen screw with a small thumb screw and you won't need the wrench.

[UrbanaDave]

I’m loving this from Instruments Innovations. Mike recommended that I order the smaller weights to fine tune. And for the record, this is the Side Balance by II, not the Satellite as my post title described. Smaller and less $. Frankly less expensive and better than most standard counterweights I found.

[bbadgerd]

If your still looking for an Olds Studio counter weight let me know. I have one available.

[UrbanaDave]

If your still looking for an Olds Studio counter weight let me know. I have one available.

Thanks! Share a picture?

[bbadgerd]

Attached two pictures.

[UrbanaDave]

Attached two pictures.

I PM’d you. Nice! Where did you find it?

[Doubler]

I used a counterweight from an old Ambassador on mine. Since it solders onto the tuning crook itself, it offers reasonable leverage.

[UrbanaDave]

Thanks, bbgard! I think it looks great.

[ssking2b]

I put one on my XO bass trombone. It works GREAT!