Financing a horn?

[Lankythedanky]

Hey there. I'm a college bass bone player looking to pick up my first bass. I already have two tenors and have just used the school bass up until now (conn 62h). My problem is that it's only available to me during the school year and I'm pretty much boned over the summer. I have absolutely zero credit history so I'm wondering what experiences you guys have had financing horns, whether from smaller sellers (milano music in Mesa, AZ) or from larger retailers like Music and Arts and the like. Feel free to drop in any advice you may have. Thanks!

[ithinknot]

Don't go into debt for an instrument. Financing a new horn at retail price is the worst possible option; you get screwed on the finance, the retail markup, and the depreciation as soon as you open the box.

Longer term, save up $2k and buy something decent used. If you can't afford that over time, you can't afford the finance either.

Short term, write to the head of department and beg to take the instrument home over the summer, explaining your financial situation and offering to insure the horn at your own expense. We're talking a proper letter here, not just a two line email to the departmental secretary, and get your teacher to write independently in support of your request.

[hyperbolica]

Yeah, used horn all the way. I know younger people like shiny stuff, but a decent new bass bone is going to be $4-7k. Used car territory. A used bass bone will start $1500 - $4k. Depending of course what you're looking at. Even if you're making money playing, I'd just start with something used. There are plenty of options.

[LeTromboniste]

The only case where I would consider financing is if you're getting a really good deal and you're saving over market value even with the added interests. I did that in college with an alto, had this opportunity to get a very good Courtois with a very substantial "demo horn" discount, couldn't afford to pay for it cash, so I did financing over 12 months (rate was also decent). With the financing it was still a lot cheaper than the normal retail price (I think I didn't even really lose anything when I resold it), and the cost of not seizing the opportunity of snatching off that particular instrument seemed to me higher than the cost to buy it with financing.

Generally, though, I would advise against it if you can avoid it. Good but affordable second-hand basses that can get you through college or be played professionally are not hard to find. I have one for sale for $1600.

[trombonedemon]

Here's what I did. I went to PayPal and downloaded there app. I had a 700 credit score and bought my bass bone on Reverb on Black Friday. If you are very serious about the instrument it's a no brainer.

[Lhbone]

I agree that used market is the way to go...pretty much guaranteed to get 20-50% off a horn in good condition if you go that route and patiently shop the used market.

I don't know your financial situation, but another option you could consider would be getting a credit card with a 0% interest promotional period (usually 15-18 months and often come with a sign-up bonus of $150-200). When buying on the used market, you'd have to pay PayPal Goods & Services and the seller would probably want you to pay a little extra for the fee (approximately 3%). You could put the horn on the card and then send a second payment family/friends to cover the fees. Again, a personal decision based on a multitude of factors that only you can decide is right for you. IMO, there's nothing wrong with financing something of high importance if you do it in an intelligent way where you "work the system" into your favor.

[bassclef]

I financed a new Yamaha 620G from my local Music & Arts. I had been playing a used one which hadn't been treated that well before I got it. I decided that if I liked it enough, I'd look into a new one. Well, I did and in November of last year, I happened to see that Music & Arts was running a financing deal which was hard to ignore: 60 months at 0% interest. That's a lot of free money. I had to apply for the store credit card which was fine. Now, I have until 2028 to pay it off, if I so choose. Equal monthly payments, if I happen to utilize that whole term, is less than my cell phone bill.

[TomInME]

Not sure if this is still true, but it used to be the case that if you can justify the purchase as "necessary for your degree", you can get your financial aid increased by that amount (likely loans, but generally significantly better terms than you could get from a bank with a personal loan). I think this could be new or used, but requires some evidence of the need and a price estimate.

I'm dubious about the claim that $2k will be enough for a good bass...

Most important: if you get the chance to try some instruments out, bring experienced ears - your teacher if possible. You'll know what feels good, they'll know what sounds good.

[harrisonreed]

I wanted a better alto than the Jinbao I had in 2005 when I was 18, so I taught lessons. I undercut the daylights out of everyone in the area because I needed the money, and while a 30+ year old trombone teacher might have been worth $60 an hour back then, an 18 year old who could get people into all-state was worth $25. I also worked a job at my school, and took gigs as they came up. I had tons of students because I would travel to their homes to teach. Parents were all about that. I saved the $2k I needed in a few months. Sure, I was taking on federal student loans during school, but I tried to minimize it.

You should do the same.

[LeTromboniste]

I'm dubious about the claim that $2k will be enough for a good bass...

For the perfect or ideal "end-game" instrument, of course probably not. For a decent instrument that can serve OP in college and even professionally, yes absolutely possible. Not tons of such options, but there are some. You can sometimes get a Benge 290 for around that, and that's a great option. Another example: I have a Yamaha 612 for sale for less than that, that I bought when it looked like I was going to move back to North America and would be playing modern instruments again. Is it the best horn out there? Not by any rate. Is it what I would want to play if I was fully committed to being a professional modern bass player? Likely not, but I did buy it for the purpose of playing it professionally, and would be happily using it now if I had moved back to Canada. In any case, would I have been happy to have that horn at that price in college instead of using the school instrument, and to have a cheap but totally serviceable instrument while saving up and figuring out my needs to eventually get "the one"? Absolutely, without any doubt.

2K$, some decent options already. Go to 3K$, on the used market, and you have several good professional instrument options.

[AtomicClock]

The usual way to finance a horn goes something like: Thanks Mom. I'll pay you back. Honest."

[BrassSection]

My advice, even though I’m not a financial advisor, is to not finance a horn at this time. Unless you have some type of a full ride scholarship I imagine you’re already racking up some nice debt. You didn’t say what your major is, but if it’s not music performance or education related, you may be financially restricting yourself in the near future with a horn that’s nice to have, but not absolutely necessary.

Not trying to be mean, just the voice of experience in the past with a debt. Been living debt free, it sure beats high interest rates!

[harrisonreed]

Especially nowadays when interest rates are higher than they have been for a long time.

[Lhbone]

Once again, there are numerous avenues for financing at a 0% interest rate. I am restating this in case it is helpful for anyone who visits this thread in the future. Most music stores partner with someone, like Synchrony, who offers a promotional period of 0% interest. There are also options through PayPal and credit card companies. Financing can actually also be a smart choice even if you have the money in the bank. Monthly payments at 0% interest while your cash sits in the 4-5% savings accounts right now is a pretty sweet deal. Again, anyone reading this should do their research and make the decision that's best for them.

[hyperbolica]

I'm dubious about the claim that $2k will be enough for a good bass...

I look back at the bass bones that I've bought or sold in the last 12 years for under $2k:
King duo gravis
Holton 181
Conn 83h
Yamaha 6xx
Bach 50b2
Olds P24g
Olds S20 (modified)
King 1480
72h
70h

All of these were pro instruments and were played in pro situations. I'm dubious about the idea that everyone needs to start on a bright shiny Shires.

[Elow]

There’s a great condition shires Q bass for 2K obo on Facebook right now

[TomInME]

There’s a great condition shires Q bass for 2K obo on Facebook right now

I see a set of Q rotors for $2k. And a Q alto for $2k. Generally a used Q bass runs closer to $3400.
Where's the link? If the slide is an 8 or above, you should buy it now and flip it for $3k.

I'm dubious about the claim that $2k will be enough for a good bass...

I look back at the bass bones that I've bought or sold in the last 12 years for under $2k:
King duo gravis
Holton 181
Conn 83h
Yamaha 6xx
Bach 50b2
Olds P24g
Olds S20 (modified)
King 1480
72h
70h

All of these were pro instruments and were played in pro situations. I'm dubious about the idea that everyone needs to start on a bright shiny Shires.

This does not make me less dubious. A King 1480 for a current college bass bone major? Really?
I wouldn't be recommending single-valve, closed wrap, older rotors, or dependent configurations, much less all of the above. Older players can sound good on them, but younger players shouldn't have to deal with those struggles when better stuff is available. Just in terms of the low B's they're likely to face, those builds are not "good".

If this is a casual player / non-major, they can stick with the school horn for $0.

Re: financing: 0% is 28% if you miss a payment. Be completely sure what you're signing up for.

[hyperbolica]

A King 1480 for a current college bass bone major? Really?

I didn't recommend anything. I said those are bass bones that I bought or sold for under $2k.

[BGuttman]

Also, he's not a trombone major -- he's studying something else. For a dedicated amateur, nearly anything is OK.

[TomInME]

If this is a casual player / non-major, they can stick with the school horn for $0.

[TomInME]

A King 1480 for a current college bass bone major? Really?

I didn't recommend anything. I said those are bass bones that I bought or sold for under $2k.

So you're saying they're not good enough to recommend.

[hyperbolica]

So you're saying they're not good enough to recommend.

Geezis, people go out of their way to misunderstand things. I said nothing about recommendations. I said I have bought and sold horns under $2k.

80% chance he winds up with a brand new Shires Q. Kids can't resist the urge for shiny stuff.

[bitbckt]

Here’s an interesting option:

https://thebrass-exchange.com/content/c ... nge-valves

[LeTromboniste]

Here’s an interesting option:

https://thebrass-exchange.com/content/c ... nge-valves

I would 100% buy this today if I was in the market for a bass.

[TomInME]

So you're saying they're not good enough to recommend.

Geezis, people go out of their way to misunderstand things. I said nothing about recommendations. I said I have bought and sold horns under $2k.

80% chance he winds up with a brand new Shires Q. Kids can't resist the urge for shiny stuff.

No misunderstanding. You took issue with my dubiousness about good sub-$2k basses by quoting me and listing a bunch of sub-$2k basses. Unfortunately, many/most of them would not meet a modern definition of "good", and you're unwilling to recommend them for a college player (as am I). Better than nothing, sure, but that's not the same thing.

[TomInME]

Here’s an interesting option:

https://thebrass-exchange.com/content/c ... nge-valves

I would 100% buy this today if I was in the market for a bass.

It's interesting for sure, but silver-plated rose brass probably goes "thunk".

[LeTromboniste]

Geezis, people go out of their way to misunderstand things. I said nothing about recommendations. I said I have bought and sold horns under $2k.

80% chance he winds up with a brand new Shires Q. Kids can't resist the urge for shiny stuff.

No misunderstanding. You took issue with my dubiousness about good sub-$2k basses by quoting me and listing a bunch of sub-$2k basses. Unfortunately, many/most of them would not meet a modern definition of "good", and you're unwilling to recommend them for a college player (as am I). Better than nothing, sure, but that's not the same thing.

Several of the models quoted are used by professional players, still today. Some of them would for sure be good enough for a college student who needs an instrument without breaking the bank.

[hyperbolica]

... Unfortunately, many/most of them would not meet a modern definition of "good"...

Yeah, see, this is the problem. Prejudice against older models is not helping, and probably driving this kid to unnecessary debt. The Bach, the Yamaha and the Duo Gravis are fine for a college kid asking an online forum about financing. If he's the next Dave Taylor, he'll make whatever he plays shine. If he's not, he'll sound the same on a Bach 50b2 as on the shiniest custom Thein.

As far as an actual recommendation, my only recommendation would be personal finance training.

[TomInME]

Several of the models quoted are used by professional players, still today. Some of them would for sure be good enough for a college student who needs an instrument without breaking the bank.

Vintage basses can have interesting colors and get the job done in some situations, if they are in the hands of someone who knows their quirks and has done the extra work to learn how to overcome them. But I don't think a college player should be faced with that.

P.s.: I'll bet that Bach doesn't even have split triggers.

[LeTromboniste]

P.s.: I'll bet that Bach doesn't even have split triggers.

Triggers can be split by a good tech.....

Yes, students can learn perfectly well on horns that are not shiny new Shires, Edwards, etc. Ask any of the hundreds of working professionals who got started on just such a horn.

[tbonesullivan]

Hey there. I'm a college bass bone player looking to pick up my first bass. I already have two tenors and have just used the school bass up until now (conn 62h). My problem is that it's only available to me during the school year and I'm pretty much boned over the summer. I have absolutely zero credit history so I'm wondering what experiences you guys have had financing horns, whether from smaller sellers (milano music in Mesa, AZ) or from larger retailers like Music and Arts and the like. Feel free to drop in any advice you may have. Thanks!

If you are a non-major, I would say that going into debt for a horn is not really the best thing. Even if you are a major it's not always the best thing.

Now, when you say a Conn 62H, is this a current production 62H? Is it the 62H Dependent horn, or the 62HI independent? How close of a "match" are you looking to get to play on?

As others have said, I think that used and/or demo instruments are the best way to go to get you a horn that you can use during the off season, Even if you are a non-major, not having a horn to play on for three months is definitely not ideal if you enjoy playing and want to keep up your chops.

[AtomicClock]

playing and want to keep up your chops.

If the goal is just keeping up the chops, why not stick the Griego .5 into the Giardinelli .547 (from Lanky's profile) and play that for the summer. Not ideal, of course. But better than going into debt.

Or maybe not. Griego .5 is pretty big. Thoughts?

[KWL]

P.s.: I'll bet that Bach doesn't even have split triggers.

You write that as though that is a bad thing.

[TomInME]

P.s.: I'll bet that Bach doesn't even have split triggers.

You write that as though that is a bad thing.

Thumb rollers are better?

[tbonesullivan]

If the goal is just keeping up the chops, why not stick the Griego .5 into the Giardinelli .547 (from Lanky's profile) and play that for the summer. Not ideal, of course. But better than going into debt.

Or maybe not. Griego .5 is pretty big. Thoughts?

When I was in high school, the 1996-1997 1st chair All State trombone player was playing on a 1 1/4G. It wouldn't be "ideal" but would work.

Still, not quite the same. Now if only I could find out what type of 62H the threadstarter is playing on.

[officermayo]

Then there's this...

[harrisonreed]

How can you be a college bass bone player who owns two tenors and zero basses, though? Surely you're a tenor player who wishes they were a bass player.

I see a way to get your bass without financing anything.

[DCIsky]

This thread has devolved. Dear lord.

- Buy used for less (I’m selling an independent bass myself!). Plenty of good options, most of which will be just as serviceable as a 62H.

- Depending on your state, going through a retailer tacks on sales tax that could negate whatever surface-level deal you find yourself “getting” (in comparison to a used horn from a third party).

- In my undergrad, I spent my summers marching drum corps, playing nothing but a 3-valve marching baritone. I really dug into practicing fundamentals on that horn, especially low range, and it was great overtraining for when I came back to my bass before the start of school. You may want to do the same low range focus on your tenor(s), especially if it gives you time to save up for a proper horn.

[Lankythedanky]

Completely forgot I started this thread LMFAO. Interesting to see it devolve. For those who may still see this, yes I am a bass bone major at a community college so I'm thankfully still debt free (barely). I don't mind old horns at all, in fact that might be a bit of a draw for me as something with history would be super cool even if it doesn't have the fanciest new valve technology or whatever gizmos the new horns have. Plus having something battle tested that's gonna continue to last unlike my damn school 62h which has been to the shop three times this semester for broken springs or screws or whatever small things decide to break. That thing is such a lemon.

[EOlson9]

Not sure if this is still true, but it used to be the case that if you can justify the purchase as "necessary for your degree", you can get your financial aid increased by that amount (likely loans, but generally significantly better terms than you could get from a bank with a personal loan). I think this could be new or used, but requires some evidence of the need and a price estimate.

I'm dubious about the claim that $2k will be enough for a good bass...

Most important: if you get the chance to try some instruments out, bring experienced ears - your teacher if possible. You'll know what feels good, they'll know what sounds good.

I did this back when I was in college to pay for my bass trombone, but that was close to 25 years ago.