Broken tuba case handle

[AtomicClock]

I broke my tuba case (Weril J680) yesterday. Is this an easy fix?

broken.jpg

There's a pin that should hold the handle to its post. It's long gone, on a sidewalk or parking lot somewhere.

Supposed to look like this:

not broken.jpg

What I can't figure out is what keeps the pin in? Nothing seems to be threaded, and no slot for a screwdriver. Just force-fit? I'm tempted to drill out the other side of the shaft so that a bolt will go all the way through. Or peel out the lining of the case to install another handle through some fresh holes in the wood.

I stumbled across some Youtube videos of "peening" pins to hold knife handles together. But I'm not sure how that works, either.

Or, who fixes this kind of thing? The guy at the music store? The guy at the suitcase store? Anybody with a machine shop?

[BGuttman]

Guy at the luggage repair store.

Or just find a bolt and nut that fit the hole and bolt them together.

[AtomicClock]

Or just find a bolt and nut that fit the hole

Hole doesn't go all the way through on the far end (a topologist would say it's not a hole). I've drilled lots of holes in wood. None in metal.

[tbonesullivan]

I would measure the diameter of the hole, and see if you can source some copper rod in that size, or just slightly bigger. Then you would need to put the piece of copper in the freezer, get the base for the handle nice and hot, and then drive the piece of copper inside. As the temperatures equalize it should seize in the handle.

[ghmerrill]

I would be hesitant to use copper in this application since it's too soft to stand up to the constant stress on the handle. Same for brass.

Drilling through would probably be the simplest solution. Then you could just install a bolt in it (with lock nut or a cap nut and some Loctite. Or you could make a little piece of steel rod (one possibility would be to just cut one out of a bolt that has a long enough unthreaded portion on it), then insert that and peen each end so it won't slip out.

Drilling in the metal won't be noticeably different than drilling in wood -- and you already have the "guide hole". If you have any cutting oil, put a little on your bit or in the hole. Otherwise, just go for it. You'll be drilling in soft metal. Just use a bit you know is sharp (or spring for the cost of a new bit).

There are some other possibilities, but those are the simplest, I think.

[Doug Elliott]

First you need to get a pretty good idea of the hole size, and depth. Try some drill sizes in it, but don't drill it. There might be a nail that's close to the right size. If you can get very close to the size, put a rod in it and use red Loctite on either end or both ends, to hold it in place. After it's in, cut to length and clean up the end.

[timothy42b]

This is reminiscent of the "how to we measure the inside diameter of the slide" discussion.

You can probably find a nail or bolt that will fit through. When you do, get two. There must be another end to that handle and if you lost one, you'll lose another as soon as you fit the first. DAMHIKT.

Don't be intimidated, this is not a hard DIY. That metal piece looks thick but I'll bet it's already drilled most of the way.

[OneTon]

First you need to get a pretty good idea of the hole size, and depth. Try some drill sizes in it, but don't drill it. There might be a nail that's close to the right size. If you can get very close to the size, put a rod in it and use red Loctite on either end or both ends, to hold it in place. After it's in, cut to length and clean up the end.

Doug has the best idea. Old fashioned hardware stores have an aisle of metric and US bolts, screws, nuts, and the like. We have such a store here. Take the case in and match the hole if necessary. Don’t buy the hardest bolt or screw you can find. It will be a good opportunity to purchase red Loctite, too.

Getting a drill and motor into that location could be difficult. Every once a while, it turns out they manufactured that standoff fitting out of something really hard. Been there: Got the t-shirt.

[Doug Elliott]

I wouldn't drill it. It's already a hole on the other side. Not a bad design, just not secured well enough for whatever reason.
And I wouldn't use a bolt or screw, better to use a rod (nail?) that doesn't have threads. As long as it's a fairly good fit the Loctite will hold it forever.

[OneTon]

I forgot to say that the bolt or screw would need to be long enough to cut the head and threads off. Rod stock is best work if you can find it.

It isn’t a bad design. The thrust load is low. Over time the bearing load of the pin wears on the standoff fitting, usually, or vice versa. Mother Nature always wins.

Drilling through hardened steel can be tedious and dull drill bits.

[ghmerrill]

Rod stock is best work if you can find it.

True, but it's much easier and cheaper (in terms of time and money) to find a bolt of the appropriate diameter with an unthreaded shoulder and just cut to length. True Value hardware stores generally have a good selection of both metric and SAE bolts.

I like Doug's Loctite suggestion. I was thinking of offering a similar one involving epoxy -- but which would require more finesse in order not to stick everything together.

Drilling through hardened steel can be tedious and dull drill bits.

Probably not hardened steel in a handle bracket for an instrument case.

[AtomicClock]

I like Doug's Loctite suggestion, too. Also, since it probably broke because I was pulling the handles at weird angles to maneuver the case into my trunk, I might treat this as opportunity to install some more handles placed just for that purpose.

[Doug Elliott]

Yeah, well there's that. Some cases have really inconvenient or unnecessary latches and handles that could be seriously improved.

[AtomicClock]

Apparent success. I was frugal with the Loctite because I didn't want the articulating handle to bind up. We'll see how long it lasts. This thing of nails if probably good for another 99 repairs.

[Doug Elliott]

Loctite is a cyanoacrylate similar to super glue, it only hardens in the absence of air. So it needs a fairly tight fit. You probably wouldn't need to worry about the handle binding... much.

[JohnL]

Apparent success. I was frugal with the Loctite because I didn't want the articulating handle to bind up. We'll see how long it lasts.

In theory, the Loctite shouldn't have to take much stress - it's just there to keep the pin from working its way out, and red Loctite is pretty strong stuff. If you want to go the belt and suspenders route, you might stake the pin in place.

[CalgaryTbone]

A luggage repair place might be the best way to go - I've had pretty good luck with a couple of different luggage shops for case repairs in the past.

Jim Scott

[BrassSection]

Wish my tuba “case” needed a similar repair. Old Conn 20J came in a Naugahyde bag with a draw string and sewn on handle, for the horn only, the bell is on it's own. “Handle” is torn off, and I’ve heard Naugas are extinct. Fortunately, tuba gets minimal use. When it does the bell sits nicely on the back seat of my F150 while the tuba fits nicely on the floor behind the front seats. Tuba cost me $0.00 so I really can’t complain. Store tuba in the nauga, with all tuning slides and valves removed and in a box. Bell gets covered with an old sheet.

Trumpet case on the other hand has a leather wrapped handle, with a small metal strap that wraps around a metal loop, and the ends of the metal were secured under some leather. The leather has torn, allowing the metal strap to be exposed on the end. Masons string and a little glue keep the ends covered and secure for awhile, but eventually an end pokes out again. Hate to tale to a shop and leave it, too much stuff to store, including my trombone mouthpiece which does not fit in the trombone case. If I had access to a plastic welder, I’d probably wrap the ends with a piece of PVC welding rod.

[BrassSection]

Thought of a solution for the trumpet case:
I’ll get my wife to braid some baling twine and then secure that to the metal loops! Surprised I didn’t think of that before…Baling twine, the farmers friend!

No farmer ever said “Put the bailing twine away son, that fence is beyond repair!”

[ghmerrill]

I confess that I've never used bailing twine to do fence repair. Bailing wire ... yes. Also race wire.

[BrassSection]

Baling twine is good for a quick repair on a live electric fence. Been there, done that!

Note: I’ve never used wet twine on a live electric fence, and I wouldn’t recommend trying it! But then again it probably wouldn’t be as bad as the time I grabbed a T-post to climb over a fence wire and the fence wire arced up a good inch to my hand that was firmly grasping the well grounded metal post! 7000 volts gets your attention fast!

05EDE06B-A8E1-4ADC-8E55-6A574B9E5371.png

[ghmerrill]

... the fence wire arced up a good inch to my hand that was firmly grasping the well grounded metal post! 7000 volts gets your attention fast!

Yeah, it definitely does. But I've never seen an arc like that. I'm running a 7000V fencer right now and it won't noticeably arc at all -- certainly not to the tester. But it does make the wildlife jump a bit when they bump noses with it. That fence you encountered must have been pumping out the amps. Maybe a "weed chopper"? Nasty.

[JohnL]

Thought of a solution for the trumpet case:
I’ll get my wife to braid some baling twine and then secure that to the metal loops! Surprised I didn’t think of that before…Baling twine, the farmers friend!

If you have some on hand, you might try paracord.

[BrassSection]

Have a 120 mile fencer surrounding 8 acres. With the recommended 3 ground rods. With a branch on the fence I can draw a spark well over an inch pulling the knife gate switch open.

No guarantees with any fence, found the old rule “No matter how good your fence is, sooner or later your animals will be on the wrong side of it!” to be true. Went to feed my steaks-on-the-hoof one evening and had more cows than I should. Hurried up and walked the perimeter to look for a downed wire, but the tracks in the snow told the story…neighbors cow had jumped into my fence!

[BrassSection]

Paracord would work, but the baling twine will match the tan trumpet case nicely!

[ghmerrill]

…neighbors cow had jumped into my fence!

Cows. What's to say?

[Posaunus]

Just remember that your baling twine is "biodegradable." (i.e., it won't last forever.)

[ghmerrill]

But it's non-conductive and so can't take advantage of solar power. Another cursed dilemma.

[BrassSection]

Twine last fairly long if it stays dry. Even if I get a year or two out of it, there’s a whole lotta hay bales in the barn with baling twine on! Played the age card this year, old fart threw bales out of the wagon onto the elevator while the younger lads stacked it in the barn.

[ghmerrill]

Ah, for the days when I could work on a hay wagon for 10 hours a day, $2/hour, and all I could eat.

[Posaunus]

Ah, for the days when I could work on a hay wagon for 10 hours a day, $2/hour, and all I could eat.

I loaded hay (as a young teenager) for my uncle's dairy farm - but for only ~6/hours/day. (The cows still had to be milked.) As I recall, I was probably too tired and sore to even think about eating! When I was 18, I worked as a "milkman" - home delivery from a truck that I loaded, iced (no refrigeration in those days), delivered to customers, and washed; then spent the rest of my 10-12 hour day working in the milk processing plant. I was paid $10/day, but could drink all the milk I wanted. Aunt & uncle only charged me $25/month room & board! Those were my "good old days!"

[ghmerrill]

My experience was in my four years of graduate school (in Philosophy!) working part-time and full-time during vacation breaks on the family Blank Angus farm run by the chairman of the department (about 300 acres at that time, as I recall, in the Rochester NY area). Also working for neighbors during the season. General farm work (mowing, plowing, fence work, mucking out the barn and chicken coop, building pole barns, etc.). Baling on the hillsides sometimes got to be pretty thrilling. Most memorable experience: watching (from a distance of about 20 ft.) a Black Angus breeding bull named "Panorama" simply walk through the wall of a structurally sound barn because we'd put him in there while we moved the cows, and he didn't want to be there. Luckily, Angus bulls are pretty nice creatures -- unlike the psychotic Arab stallion (is that redundant?) with whom I developed something of a tenuous relationship over the years.

[OneTon]

Most memorable experience: watching (from a distance of about 20 ft.) a Black Angus breeding bull named "Panorama" simply walk through the wall of a structurally sound barn because we'd put him in there while we moved the cows, and he didn't want to be there. Luckily, Angus bulls are pretty nice creatures -- unlike the psychotic Arab stallion (is that redundant?) with whom I developed something of a tenuous relationship over the years.

Animals are more like people than not, capable of psychotic behavior on any given day and for some, everyday. My great uncle’s Black Angus calf, “Blackie,” dedicated a summer to trying to kick me every morning during feeding. He should have been named “Ninja.” He was adept at kicking sideways, especially with his right hind leg. He finally got me, leaving a hideous honey melon sized bruise on my right thigh. I thought my leg was broken at first. The demented beast may have thought he was playing. He didn’t make the best steaks twp years later: Eating Blackie beat feeding Blackie any day of thr week.

“Duchess,” on the other hand, was a sweet mare that belonged to Curt and Rand, neighbors a few miles away. My sister drug me off when we were attempting to ride Duchess bareback. We both fell under the horse. I scampered out. Duchess just stopped and waited until i pulled my sister out from under her.

When I observed the elephants while i was playing circuses, the elephants chosen were “in” to giving rides and performing acts. There are far more horses being abused in the US than elephants.

[ghmerrill]

Animals are more like people than not, capable of psychotic behavior on any given day and for some, everyday.

True, but Arab stallions have many more of those days than Angus bulls do.

My great uncle’s Black Angus calf, “Blackie,” dedicated a summer to trying to kick me every morning during feeding. He should have been named “Ninja.” He didn’t make the best steaks twp years later: Eating Blackie beat feeding Blackie any day of thr week.

So was he a steer? Steers don't count. They're always somewhat goofy. You probably would be too.

There are far more horses being abused in the US than elephants.

Yes, one rarely hears of elephant abuse in the US. On the other hand, one rarely encounters elephant racing in the US. However, we had quarter horses for about 25 years (my wife -- not me!), and I would have to use the word "pampered" rather than "abused" to describe them. When I think of the PILES of money that went in their direction for care, feeding, and vet service ... It would be more accurate to describe them as "occasionally ridden pets who lived with us".

[OneTon]

I don’t remember whether Blackie was a steer by then or not. I think not. He had tried to suckle on every cow on the place and succeeded in getting kicked in the head at least one too many times.

In the other hand, the Black Angus cows would come up from behind and face plant him in the mud or grass as he walked across the pens and pastures. They were just playing a prank.

[BrassSection]

Most of our bovines have black angus, with a few red ones. Only had one crazy heifer. Tried to get her out of the pasture and into the barn for 4 days, she had a date with the butcher. Finally neighbor and I tried the dual tractor squeeze to get her thru the gate…got within 5’ of the gate, did a u-turn and took off up thru the pasture, thru the fence and into the woods. Few minutes later she came back down the hill between our fence and the neighbors, and jumped into his young calf lot. No calves in there and gate was open. Boy did I make tracks to get it closed! Told the neighbor I was gonna put a cow down in his lot, but it was mine. He chuckled and said he’d put the forks on his skid steer to load her after he hears a shot. She sure did taste good! That’s the same cow that got loose one time and came racing back the lane headed towards our Jeep. She tried to jump over it, front hoof caught the right front fender, scraped across the hood, put it thru the vinyl bumper cover, and broke a headlight. Insurance guy chuckled and said the same thing happened to his uncle!

Arabs…had a full blooded one that wasn’t too bad, and a registered half Arab that acted 200% Arab! We switched from horses to cows after the half Arab died at 33 years of age. (Found out cows taste better than horses…) Actually had 2 horses at the same time that were half Arab and half quarter horse. One looked and acted like the Arabian breed tends to, and the other looked and acted like a pure quarter horse. Daughter showed the Arab-like one, wife rode the quarter horse-like one. I had a big old Rocky Mountain walker. Smooth as silk to ride!

Steers…had one that was well behaved at home. Old Sir Loin had a date with the butcher, he decided the next stall over at the butchers looked better…then the next one looked better, until he tried all 6. Next trip to the butchers we noticed he had added 2 feet of piping to the walls of each stall.

[BrassSection]

Oh yeah, mules…
My great grandfather had one that went by the name Harry. Always about half wild, he gave me a good swift kick in the butt when I was about ten. (Probably deserved according to dad) Year or 2 later Harry thought the grass looked greener on the other side of the fence, which was at the top of a 5’ bank. He wasn’t thinking of the road at the bottom of the bank when he crashed thru the fence. As he sailed onto the road, my uncle Leo was passing by in his 50s Dodge power wagon stake bed truck. When the truck stopped, the motor was in the cab beside my unhurt uncle. Harry wasn’t so lucky.

[Posaunus]

Don't underestimate the power of (sometimes) seemingly-docile large animals!

[Posaunus]

How did this thread go so far astray?

Guess somebody left the gate open!

[BrassSection]

Started with a tuba case, then a trumpet case was added, then Switched from brass to animals that eat grass. Oh well, still like my trombone!

[OneTon]

Better switch it to herbivores. Grass fed Angus taste like whale meat. A few weeks on corn helps red or black Angus. I haven’t tried horse meat and probably won’t.

[BrassSection]

Only kidding about eating horses! Gotta let grass fed beef hang for about 3 weeks, makes a big difference!

[ghmerrill]

How did this thread go so far astray?

Guess somebody left the gate open!

If you open the gate with a mildly broken tuba case, you get what you get.

[Posaunus]

Grass fed Angus taste like whale meat. A few weeks on corn helps red or black Angus.

Not sure about that. I had some pretty terrific beef - I believe grass-fed black Angus - last year in New Zealand.
Also ate some wonderful venison - they raise it commercially there.
Both great complements to the fine Kiwi red wines!

[BGuttman]

Um, last time I checked grass was a vegetable. Grass fed or corn fed, both are herbivores.

[BrassSection]

Grass-fed beef tends to be lower in calories since it has less fat. It has also been shown to have higher levels of Omega 3 fatty acids compared to grain-fed beef which has many health benefits. Down side is it takes 2 years from birth to butcher, but once you have a steady turnover it really doesn’t matter to a small farm growing for personal use only. One cow lasts us about two years, as does one organically raised hog. We can fatten up a hog over the summer. One hay cutting a year gets us thru the winter, pasture them as long as possible.

[JohnL]

Started with a tuba case, then a trumpet case was added, then Switched from brass to animals that eat grass.

We've found a hitherto unknown use for baling twine; it's very good for pulling TromboneChat threads off topic.

[Doug Elliott]

Don't underestimate the power of (sometimes) seemingly-docile large animals!

Wih this post we got back to tubas.

[JohnL]

Don't underestimate the power of (sometimes) seemingly-docile large animals!

Just because you're not on the menu does not mean the animal isn't going to try to kill you.

[BrassSection]

Lost a neighbor a couple of years ago when his bull charged him in the barn. Never trust any animal. So far, other than the kick in the butt by a mule I’ve only been attacked by a rooster. My son was chased into the back door and several times around the kitchen being flogged by a male Canada goose protecting his mates nest 5’ away from our back door.