PSA: Moving is the worst

[Matt K]

I owe like a million people a response, thanks for the patience everyone. Moved like 10 miles away, and it's been sucking up all my attention for the last few weeks (while recovering from a particularly nasty bout of pnemonia!). I have my office setup finally. If you're waiting to hear back from me about something I will not be offended if you reach back out to me.

Side note: anyone have any firm opinions on gutter guards? I see that there are a million options and the reviews on all of them seem pretty bad... including not putting guards on

[flyingcow]

I don't think there's a single "good" gutter guard out there. That said, my house doesn't even have gutters anymore. It relies on the currently non-functional french drains. 50 year old builder spec houses are fun.

[ghmerrill]

Context: For almost 40 years we've been living in rural NC (6 acres) surrounded by many tall trees (mostly hickory, oak, maple, and pine). House built (in the southeast!) in the early 70s. The ONLY gutter guards I've found that work reliably (and do not require cleaning out) are the "helmet" style guards that are solid (not mesh or any kind of "filter". Here's an example:

https://www.aluminumcompany.com/product ... ter-helmet

In fact just last month we had a couple of runs of them replaced (after about 20 years) with larger ones, and at the same time had my DIY garage gutters replaced with them on the garage. The major competitor to these is now Leafguard -- which uses some kind of "patented" micro-filter about which I am VERY skeptical (although Leafguard will also provide the helmet style). But the Leafguard quote was VERY expensive -- $10,000 for what we wanted. The Aluminum Company of NC gave us an estimate of a bit over $7,500. For a more complete gutter job plus additional fascia repair and aluminum wrapping for the new fascia, and any touch-painting they might need to do. AC of NC had done our original ones years ago, we ended up dealing with the same, very knowledgeable, estimator we had previously. The other quotes we got were from high pressure salesmen who were just pitching product and thoroughly distorted comparisons among different products, including different products of their own.

My points here are to get two or three estimates and really think about what you want, what you're being told by the estimator, and what you'd be getting for that estimate. This stuff is not cheap. But the good stuff will last for decades and be effective. You also want to be sure they drain correctly and get the runoff away from your basement/crawlspace/foundation. You could go the DIY route (I have in the past), but you really can't do that with the good commercial gutters that you end up needing.

[WGWTR180]

We had gutter guards years ago. I put them all on and they worked great UNTIL the freakin' squirrels went up through the downspouts and built 20 feet long nests in every gutter!! I then had to take them all off and the squirrels were attacking me as I was doing it. Never again.

[ghmerrill]

We had gutter guards years ago. I put them all on and they worked great UNTIL the freakin' squirrels went up through the downspouts and built 20 feet long nests in every gutter!! I then had to take them all off and the squirrels were attacking me as I was doing it. Never again.

I feel your pain. I've dealt with squirrels for decades. We have an understanding concerning territorial dominion. When they violate it, consequences ensue. I've never had them go up the downspouts, but hey have gotten into gutters from the ends if those have any gaps, and they have chewed through facia (now replaced and wrapped in aluminum -- which also defeats the carpenter bees), and they've managed to get into the house that way. That was the last squirrel straw and the "understanding" was subsequently updated and made more explicit. They've also managed to get in some attic vents where the old mesh had degraded and come out. Their acrobatics are impressive, though somewhat outdone by the raccoons when those were stripping our fig tree of fruit (new understanding with them as well -- which included 7,000 V electric mesh fence charger). Then only the possum got through (apparently he was fast enough and had enough insulation not to be bothered). So a strobe/ultrasound repeller has taken care of that (and the deer as well).

The game cam now shows that the local bunny is happily going in and out of the fenced fig tree enclosure. But he isn't eating any figs, and so we don't care. He'll probably also give up on that when I deploy the repellers for the season.

What was it that Tennyson said about "Nature, red in tooth and claw"?

[Matt K]

Yeah new place has way more wildlife, at least visible wildlife, despite being less rural than I was before (went from a "neighborhood" with about 6 houses and 1.5 acre sized lots to like .75 and the amount of rabbits, chipmunks, squirrels, and the sort that I see outside my window make me a little worried about them getting inside. Oh well, that's a problem to solve next week

The helmets are interesting, those are the most positively reviewed of the sort... might have to bite the bullet and go for those. There are so many trees around here that are literally 6" from my roof, it'll be impossible to have good drainage this fall without them. Last owners cleaned them out themselves but it's like 80 ft off the ground. I'm not that brave!

[flyingcow]

Last owners cleaned them out themselves but it's like 80 ft off the ground. I'm not that brave!

I think that's why ours are gone. They clearly existed at one time, and somewhere along the way, someone looked up and went, "no."

[AndrewMeronek]

Make sure the gutters themselves slope downward correctly. If the slope catches debris at the end of a gutter that does not have a drain, no gutter guard is going to help.

[ghmerrill]

... of rabbits, chipmunks, squirrels, and the sort that I see outside my window make me a little worried about them getting inside. Oh well, that's a problem to solve next week

You may discover that some of your new neighbors are feeding the cute little creatures.

Last owners cleaned them out themselves but it's like 80 ft off the ground. I'm not that brave!

So ... that would make it at least a 5 story house? But even 30 ft is further up than I want to go any more -- even with a harness.

If you get them from a good company, they may -- as part of their approach -- offer to come back and clean them without cost if you have any problems. Of course, what we discovered was that this kind of offer is only as good as the lifetime of the company (another good reason to find something like the Aluminum Company) and not something closer to "Bob's gutters and and septic systems".

[ghmerrill]

Make sure the gutters themselves slope downward correctly. If the slope catches debris at the end of a gutter that does not have a drain, no gutter guard is going to help.

A good point. The competent installers are very good about this -- and about not creating too long a run without an additional downspout. With these most recent ones we had installed, we managed to eliminate one intermediate downspout -- partly as a a result of careful installation, and partly as a result of the larger (4" vs. 3") gutter size. But at almost 40' of run, that's about the limit. Everything is working very well, even in the recent downpours we've had. They even (without extra cost) retrofit an existing downspout on one of our other gutters to eliminate an overflow (2nd story gutter to 1st story gutter) that I'd done a rough Rube Goldberg fix on.

[Doubler]

Conventional gutters usually drain well regardless of the amount of rain when installed correctly (with just enough slope toward the downspouts). Unfortunately, leaves interfere with the flow, especially in Autumn, when once-a-week cleanings can be required, so during that time draining your financial resources is what it takes to keep gutters and downspouts draining properly.

Gutter guards do a great job of trapping leaves before they get a chance to enter the gutters and clog them. Once this occurs, they also do a great job of preventing water from entering the gutters, too. You'll always have clean gutters and downspouts, though (except for the leaves, trash, and dirt that find their way underneath the gutter guards). Periodic cleaning, pretty much along the lines of open gutters mitigates circumstances (see above for consequent expense). If this is not done, water will just run over the top and spill over the gutter edges, with the effect of not having gutters at all, just like...

... Leaf Guard and other gutter systems with the same design. These are pretty good at redirecting light rain, period. Anything more will just spill over the top, avoiding the inside of the gutters altogether and splashing against the foundation of the building, eventually causing expensive settling, cracking, and other foundation damage (ask me how I know). Uncannily, however, leaves, debris, and dirt do find their way into the gutters anyway. This system is remarkable in its ability to immediately drain financial resources due not only to the expenses of purchase and installation, but it does quite well at continuing to drain funds as time passes, just like the other types.

So what's the answer? Pick your poison; guttering is expensive no matter what, and don't expect warranties to help. I've had all three $y$tem$, and my next choice will be conventional gutters and downspouts, so I can have effective rainwater management much, but not all, of the time, along with the reassurance that I'll be keeping whomever I hire to clean my gutters living a comfortable lifestyle.

[AndrewMeronek]

This system is remarkable in its ability to immediately drain financial resources due not only to the expenses of purchase and installation, but it does quite well at continuing to drain funds as time passes, just like the other types.

My snarky thought is that after the gutters themselves, a garden hose and a ladder are a pretty good investment for gutter maintenance, but sometimes that isn't feasible to reach all the needed gutters, either if the house has a tricky roof design or if someone can't really use ladders.

The "over the top" solution would be to go buy a boom lift. Sure, it'll set you back $30k (or more) but then you have a really nice toy to play with.

[JohnL]

Anyone ever try one of these?
https://www.orbitonline.com/products/te ... aning-wand
Looks promising.

[ghmerrill]

... Leaf Guard and other gutter systems with the same design. These are pretty good at redirecting light rain, period. Anything more will just spill over the top, avoiding the inside of the gutters altogether and splashing against the foundation of the building, eventually causing expensive settling, cracking, and other foundation damage (ask me how I know).

This is my experience with the old-style "mesh" gutters (which we originally had on the house decades ago), and why I'm suspicious of the newer Leafguard "micromesh" style. But it simply hasn't happened with the helmet style gutters. There can be no leaf buildup on them since the rain washes leaves off the smooth tops of the gutter. And the way these work is that the rain does actually wash over the top -- and then around the curved front edge into the gutter (it takes advantage of the surface tension of the water in doing this). There is some advice to wash off the front edge of the gutter with a hose from time to time in order to avoid any build up of "gunk" that may stick to the front, but I confess I've never done this and haven't seen any problem caused by it. In anything from light rain to hurricanes sweeping through the central Carolinas, we've had no problem with these. The only time we've had any problem was when a big oak (75 ft or more) fell right on the corner of our roof, and the gutter wasn't repaired quite correctly (and not by the original installers, but by the roofers who fixed the roof -- I should have paid more attention to that ). But I think a lot may depend on the quality of the gutter (material, etc.) itself, and the skill of the installer -- and what they'll stand behind. All of that is a big part of what you pay for.

[ghmerrill]

Anyone ever try one of these?
https://www.orbitonline.com/products/te ... aning-wand
Looks promising.

Maybe for light "city or suburban" ( ) locations and gutter cleaning, and a 1-story house. But around here we wouldn't be able to keep up even for a couple of days once the leaves start to fall and blow onto the house. We're in the middle of pretty dense forest -- even though the nearest trees are a good distance from the house -- and the last tree we took down here was a 120' hickory. We've taken down similarly sized hickory's and oaks over the 30+ years we've been here. Also, a 70" pole just won't do it for the second story.

We have so many leaves here that our "lawn care" guy comes at the end of the season and spends hours blowing them back into the woods and clearing them out of the culverts. So some of this is "different strokes for different folks."

[Matt K]

So what's the answer? Pick your poison; guttering is expensive no matter what, and don't expect warranties to help. I've had all three $y$tem$, and my next choice will be conventional gutters and downspouts, so I can have effective rainwater management much, but not all, of the time, along with the reassurance that I'll be keeping whomever I hire to clean my gutters living a comfortable lifestyle.

That seems to be what my research has lead to. I found someone who can at least clean them for me for a pretty reasonable price so I do t have standing water in it.

I did see something you can put on the downspouts that lets water go through it but leaves will slide out in front of the gutter. I might do something like that. Not sure if it’s supposed to go at the top or the bottom. Won’t help much for the downspouts that are on the roof but would for all the ones that don’t exhaust onto the roof

[Kbiggs]

I agree: moving is a pain. We moved into new construction about two years ago. Our builder provided a one-year warranty, and there were a few things that needed fixing. Fortunately, not the gutters.

We deliberately down-sized, although we didn’t shed enough stuff before moving, so like a lot of Americans, we rented a storage unit. Ugh. Maybe, if we haven’t used something in two years, we don’t need it after all.

With the mad dash to pack and move, some things seem to be missing. I’m still looking for some of my mouthpieces… not that I use them…