Innovative new bass trombone plunger mute

[ghmerrill]

I haven't been satisfied with my bass trombone plunger situation. I've been struggling with the Mutec I've had for a while, and it performs adequately, I suppose, but now that I'm in a "jazz band", I'm finding it frustrating and fatiguing to use. Every time I pick it up it feels like I'm hoisting a steel-belted radial tire into position.

So this afternoon I completed the design, materials sourcing, and prototype fabrication of what I'm thinking of as the-light-weight-simple-plunger-hat-whatever mute (SimpleMute will probably be the trade name once it's in production), and I wanted to share this success with you. Here it is ...

Plunger mute1.png

No, WAIT! That's not it! I don't know how that got in here. Here's the actual prototype SimpleMute (TM), shown after initial testing:

plunger mute2.jpg

The MuTech weighs about 8.5 oz. and the SimpleMute (TM) weighs in at 0.9 oz. (which is essentially 0.0 oz., for small values of 0.9 or large values of 0). Interestingly, the diameter of the SimpleMute (TM) is identical to that of the MuTech at approximately 6.5". The SimpleMute (TM) is small enough and light enough to be held in one hand and easily manipulated. As you can see in the picture, much effort and precise fabrication has gone into the design and dimensioning of the "tone hole" of the SimpleMute (TM), which is a critical feature of its innovative design and performance.

An earlier attempt at designing a larger SimpleMute (TM) plunger mute employed an 8.25" diameter approach, but this proved to be inferior to the smaller mute in terms of tone and ease of use. It also required multiple tone holes placed in precisely determined positions around the rim of the mute, and some sort of mechanism (say a strap or zip tie) was needed to provide the degree of control needed while playing.

Retail pricing for the SimpleMute (TM) plunger mute has yet to be determined. As previously noted (or maybe not), only the highest quality and most durable space age materials will be used in the fabrication of these mutes. Not tire rubber! Additional colors (well, at least one, depending on the primary materials supplier) will be available as well.

[harrisonreed]

It's certainly not as inexpensive as those fine mutes, but this is the one:

https://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/tro ... prigid.php

A "tone hole" seems like it would defeat the purpose of a plunger

[ghmerrill]

A "tone hole" seems like it would defeat the purpose of a plunger

That's just old thinking. I'm working on some underlying theory based on the vortex theory of atoms (Descartes, Lord Kelvin, Helmholtz, et al.), but it's pretty slow going. Plus, everybody knows you have to have a hole in your plunger mute or it strangles the resonance. The Mutec comes with one in place (though probably a bit too small).

It's actually that Tuxedo Mute that started me on this path. I couldn't figure out if there were two sizes of them (trombone and bass trombone) or which might be better for my horn. That's when I thought to myself "Self, you could probably make one of those, for a lot less than $35 (plus tax & shipping), a lot lighter, and have it working before rehearsal this week.

I was on my way to one supplier (Walmart), where I'd ascertained they had something good to work with, when I realized I'd drive right by another (Dollar Tree). So I got the two sizes and experimented a bit. I think it's actually a keeper. Not sure how it will stand up to use and abuse, but replacing it for $1 or so every once in a while doesn't seem burdensome.

[AndrewMeronek]

I wonder with plunger mutes in particular why we don't see much experimentation with non-circle-symmetric designs, for better gripping and maybe less pitch-bending (unless you want that effect).

[ghmerrill]

I think the plunger mute is somewhat schizoid. It can be used for the same purpose as a hat mute or a bucket mute (at least for a few notes). Or it can be used for the wah-wah effect -- as can a hat mute or a Harmon/wah-wah mute. Or it can be used for the even more crazy pitch-bending stuff -- in which case it needs to be quite flexible. So there doesn't seem to be a single "plunger mute" concept, but rather several roles that a plunger-like object might be used to serve.

In terms of the non-circle of asymmetric design, I've seen several pictures of "plunger" mutes that had a slice taken off their perimeters. In fact, that's the first "prototype" I made today with the larger bowel -- but I didn't have a really good way to make a smooth cut just on the perimeter and the cheap plastic was cracking too easily. And my "tone hole" is really just an alternative to that sort of perimeter cut. My intermediate attempt was to put some smaller (3/4") holes along the perimeter on the larger bowel, but I didn't want to try that with the smaller bowl because the curvature made drilling the holes difficult without causing cracking. It could be done, but I just didn't want to devote the time to it, and the central hole at the top seems to do the trick nicely.

If this really works out for me, I'll be looking for a similar bowl made from a somewhat more flexible plastic, but still light weight.

[BGuttman]

I was always looking for a large plunger to use on my bass. Larger than a toilet plunger. Found something that was 7 inches (about 175 mm). It would make a lousy toilet unclogger, but it worked for my bass.

Your idea looks interesting, but I think you need something made of polyethylene (think Tupperware bowl). Polyethylene is flexible and a lot more durable. Try some cake plates if the bowl is too deep.

I played around with aluminum pie pans for a while but that became a dead end.

Btw, there is a big discussion about whether to drill out the stick hole on a conventional plunger. Some advocate it and others don't. Somebody (Sam Burtis?) drilled his and placed a coin (US nickel) in the hole which he would use as a solid plug or rotated to a slit. I think this may go back to the OTJ Forum days.

[AtomicClock]

I think this may go back to the OTJ Forum days.

Around the same time, there was talk of taking a "jolly ball" dog toy, and removing about a hemisphere's worth, to make a plunger substitute, with convenient handle. I think it was this one:

https://jollypets.com/collections/signa ... ss-dog-toy

[OneTon]

Al Grey wrote a book on plunger mutes available from qpress for $24.95. Jon Erik Kelso demonstrates that the purpose of the center hole is to improve intonation, although he prefers solid plungers for use with pixie mutes. See mutes and jazz at Lincoln center on YouTube. I believe Al Grey advocated the use of Tom Crown trumpet straight mutes on trombones.

[BGuttman]

I think this may go back to the OTJ Forum days.

Around the same time, there was talk of taking a "jolly ball" dog toy, and removing about a hemisphere's worth, to make a plunger substitute, with convenient handle. I think it was this one:

https://jollypets.com/collections/signa ... ss-dog-toy

I liked the Jolly Ball idea a lot. I scavenged every pet supply house within a 25 mile radius of here without finding one.

[ghmerrill]

I agree with the polyethylene suggestion -- but not particularly because of the flexibility issue. Flexibility doesn't seem especially desirable to me since I don't see myself flexing it. However, I am interested in something more durable, easier to work, and less brittle than this cheesy Dollar Tree stuff -- but still lighter than rubber and easy to hold, easy to pick up and put down. I think I'll go the extra mile (literally) and see what Walmart has to offer. I saw all that stuff about the Jolly Ball as well, but I'm thinking the Jolly Ball would have the same problem as the Mutec: heavier than what I want. In terms of "to hole or not to hole", for me, any drilling out of holes isn't theory-based, but purely empirical: all about the sound I get.

[baileyman]

I haven't tried plunger with base. It seems the problem would be curving the wrist around the rim to manipulate the mute. It's hard enough with a small rim. I suppose a dedicated practitioner might fold the rim back to make room in the right place!?!

[ScottZigler]

This entertaining thread does bring up the question for me:

What is currently the best plunger on the market for a 9.5" bass trombone bell?

I'm currently still using the 30 year old hardware store plunger (with the center hole drilled out!) but that has always seemed like it would fit a King 2B and it feels like my bass swallows it.

[ghmerrill]

I haven't tried plunger with base. It seems the problem would be curving the wrist around the rim to manipulate the mute.

Well ... I don't have large hands. On my horn (9 1/2" bell) I basically have to rest the bottom of the bell rim on the bottom of my hand and use that as a kind of hinge to move the mute. This works pretty well, and I've found that a smaller "plunger" works better because a larger one is just harder to manipulate. So I don't "curve" the wrist at all, and mute size is somewhat critical. But manipulating a plunger on a double valve bass is something of a pain anyway (because of the larger size/weight and the balance) and means you can't use the valves at all.

[ghmerrill]

This entertaining thread does bring up the question for me:

What is currently the best plunger on the market for a 9.5" bass trombone bell?

I think the question is always "What is the best plunger FOR ME on THIS HORN?" And of course there's always the eternal question of what to do with the plunger when you're not using it on the bell. You're sitting there surrounded with things like a cup mute the size of many satellite dishes, often a bulbous straight mute, bucket mute (or, thankfully in my case now, a Salt Shaker mute), etc. I'm thinking of just keeping the plunger on my head like a cap -- except I'll probably forget it's there when I need it.

[BGuttman]

There's no reason you couldn't put a handle off-center on the bottom of the plastic or aluminum (aluminium?) bowl/dish to fit your particular hand size.

The instructions for use of the Jolly Ball involved cutting it so that the handle was off-center to enable easy manipulation.

For Scott: I searched through Amazon and McMaster-Carr for an oversize plunger. It's 7 inches rather than the usual 5.5 for a toilet plunger. As I mentioned above, it's really lousy for plunging toilets -- doesn't create much of a water piston -- but it works much better for my King 7B bass. Before that I used a Glenn Miller Tuxedo Plunger, but had problems with getting my hand into the handle for manipulation.

[rabiddolphin]

This entertaining thread does bring up the question for me:

What is currently the best plunger on the market for a 9.5" bass trombone bell?

I'm currently still using the 30 year old hardware store plunger (with the center hole drilled out!) but that has always seemed like it would fit a King 2B and it feels like my bass swallows it.

While it is really expensive, the Hirschman plunger works great for tenor and bass.

[EriKon]

Hirschman is by far the best plunger on the market, especially for section playing or use with pixie. So far the only one on the market that really keeps the intonation well even when doing that old school closed plunger fortissimo. And it's big enough to use for either btb or tenor.

[Posaunus]

But manipulating a plunger on a double valve bass is something of a pain anyway (because of the larger size/weight and the balance) and means you can't use the valves at all.

Plunger + notes that require valves (1 as well as 2) = impossible.
Left hand that holds plunger cannot operate either 1 valve or 2.
Arrangers that specify plungers for valve notes are ignorant or irresponsible.

[BGuttman]

But manipulating a plunger on a double valve bass is something of a pain anyway (because of the larger size/weight and the balance) and means you can't use the valves at all.

Plunger + notes that require valves (1 as well as 2) = impossible.
Left hand that holds plunger cannot operate either 1 valve or 2.
Arrangers that specify plungers for valve notes are ignorant or irresponsible.

I had my repairman rig up a piece of fishing line to the actuator of my F-valve (King 7B). The fishing line was long enough to reach my thumb while I had my hand under the bell to manipulate the plunger. It "sorta" worked but was a royal pain (literally) to use. I did it because my bass trombone part for Haarlem Nocturne had plunger notes on low Eb. Fuggedaboudit. I learned to pinch the + notes to emulate the closed plunger. Either everybody else was too nice to say anything or nobody noticed.

[ghmerrill]

Plunger + notes that require valves (1 as well as 2) = impossible.
Left hand that holds plunger cannot operate either 1 valve or 2.

Actually ... I have seen a video of this being done, with the left hand holding the plunger and supporting the bell while the right hand works the valve(s). But then, of course, you can't work the slide. To be sure, this has limited use.