Tuning. Really???

[harrisonreed]

Some trombones have a Goldilocks position based on the hand slide not being closed for the desired ensemble pitch. Notes stay centered, the partials “line up” as expected, and intonation is more stable. On those horns particularly, and most horns in general, I like to set the tuning slide to optimize the horn’s slide sweet spot for the ensemble’s pitch. Plus or minus 1/16 inch is usually close enough. I don’t usually have to move it much, or often. My mentor altered his trombone by a modification to the tuning slide. It was supposed to be biased towards the higher note range.

On the other hand, if the sweet spot was in the closed position and/or with the tuning slide pushed all the way, that would not be the horn for me.

I'm the same. It usually comes down to if the Ab is tuned to be at the bell, where the Bb is. On the horns I like, the Bb will be well off the bumpers (like the 3B, Edwards, and 88H). On horns the I don't like, the Bb will be nearly at the bumpers, with Ab at the bell. The most surprising one for me is the Shires TIS alto -- Db at bell, Eb right on the bumpers. The 36H is, surprise surprise, like the 88H. They shoulda put springs in it to send the message.

[afugate]

Where does what note one hears in the head fit into this?

I think we all agree that there is a sweet spot for the slide where a note speaks best. But it's also possible to play the same pitch to either side of that sweet spot. As an amateur, I think that's because it's what my ear hears as the correct pitch. So even if the slide isn't in the sweet spot, the note speaks.

Does this make sense?

--Andy in OKC

[tbdana]

Where does what note one hears in the head fit into this?

I think we all agree that there is a sweet spot for the slide where a note speaks best. But it's also possible to play the same pitch to either side of that sweet spot. As an amateur, I think that's because it's what my ear hears as the correct pitch. So even if the slide isn't in the sweet spot, the note speaks.

Does this make sense?

--Andy in OKC

One of the many confounding things about Frank Rosolino was that he could seemingly play any note in any position, because he played what he heard and just kind of forced the notes to speak no matter where the slide was. So yeah, it can definitely be done. But it can only be done by lipping it and forcing the note to the high or low side depending on where your slide is, and it takes away from the tone and the harmonics that would be heard if it were played in the right spot.

[VJOFan]

This thread is in "Teaching and Learning". As far as teaching and learning goes, regular tuning is non-negotiable. Musicians need to learn what being in tune relative to themselves and to others sounds like and feels like. Students need to be taught those skills or have them entrained through experience, along with being helped to find their sweet spot on their horn.

An experienced player may not make many adjustments with groups they play with a lot or when subbing in with other groups that have a pretty stable pitch centre that is close to an A they are used to, but still benefit from checking in with the general state of pitch of a new group or a less experienced group.

Professionals may not need to tune because they and their colleagues are in tune, but they still do "tune" or check in to make sure that where they play is in the pocket of the group that night. Then they spend the rest of the session continually making sure they stay in that pocket.

All people teaching and learning music should work on tuning, including checking in with the standard of pitch just before playing. To start playing with a group with the attitude of, "I'm good!" seems counter to what I consider an attitude conducive to playing well with an ensemble: I'm here to help make a great sound with this group.

[Doug Elliott]

In any case it's useful to learn that *you* are in charge of playing in tune, and relying on tuning with the tuning slide is hardly important at all. Or not important at all.