Earl Williams trombones and where to find them

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:48 pm

I've recently acquired my first Williams trombone from Noah. And what can I say: It's an absolute dream. Burbank Bob Williams Model 6 (Serial: 30XX). Probably the best (jazz) horn I ever had.

As I really like medium bore trombones, especially for the theatre and musical work, I'd be over the moon to find a Williams 9 (or 8) now. I know, those are basically never available because everyone wants to keep theirs. But if one would be available/you're searching for one, where would you check? So far I can think of Noah (BrassArk), Quinn, BrassExchange, Classifieds in here and eBay of course. Any other suggestions where to check? I don't feel like those would pop up at Dillon.

Maybe this could also work as a thread for when Williams trombones are available similar to the long Williams thread on the old version of TromboneChat?

Thanks for your input!

MStarke · Post by **MStarke** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:26 pm

Erikon, the Elbblech store which is nearby for both of us, has had some in the past. But I guess that's an option you already have on your list. (Although I find the prices a bit over the top sometimes). Vintage trombone NL is a good small shop, but I don't think he ever had a Williams yet. Dan Gotshall got his from Noah I think?

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:03 pm

MStarke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:26 pm Erikon, the Elbblech store which is nearby for both of us, has had some in the past. But I guess that's an option you already have on your list. (Although I find the prices a bit over the top sometimes). Vintage trombone NL is a good small shop, but I don't think he ever had a Williams yet. Dan Gotshall got his from Noah I think?

Yeah, Felix had a few Williams horns already at Elbblech. Definitely very pricey there, but still a good addition. If I remember correctly he had one or two 4s and a few more 6s. And there was that Franken Williams 10. Haven't seen a Model 8 or 9 there. Vintage Trombone has some nice stuff, but also not sure if they would have a Williams. I feel like Williams horns don't have a 'community' in Netherlands. In Europe it's mainly Sweden and a bit in Germany, from what I've heard.

Dan got his Earl Williams 6 from Noah, so did Klaus Heidenreich with his Burbank 6 if I remember correctly. Sebastian Hoffmann has 3 Williams horns (two model 6 and a model 7(!)). I have to ask him where he got those. So, Hamburg is pretty strong with Williams actually, but it's mainly model 6 horns. Haven't seen any 8 or 9 over here, not anywhere in Germany. Hopefully I don't have to travel to Sweden or US to get the chance to play one

CalgaryTbone · Post by **CalgaryTbone** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:08 pm

Just saw a Williams on eBay last week - it sold (buy it now) within a couple of days.

JS

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:12 pm

CalgaryTbone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:08 pm Just saw a Williams on eBay last week - it sold (buy it now) within a couple of days.

JS

Darn, must have missed that one. Do you know which model?

CalgaryTbone · Post by **CalgaryTbone** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:24 pm

No - pretty old (maybe Wallace/Williams) and it had tuning in the slide - small bore for sure.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:13 pm

If you’re looking for an 8/9, Noah has been the most consistent person/shop to have them available.

I only recall seeing a Williams 6 years back at Dillon’s.

Some other shops you can keep an eye on are Horn Guys, Horn Stash, Baltimore Brass.

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:23 pm

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:13 pm If you’re looking for an 8/9, Noah has been the most consistent person/shop to have them available.

I only recall seeing a Williams 6 years back at Dillon’s.

Some other shops you can keep an eye on are Horn Guys, Horn Stash, Baltimore Brass.

I was hoping some of the Williams experts would chime in

thanks for that input! Much appreciated. Horn Stash was completely new to me and I thought Baltimore had closed its doors, but good to see they're still active. Will add those to my list and put my hopes on Noah.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:31 pm

EriKon wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:23 pm
HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:13 pm If you’re looking for an 8/9, Noah has been the most consistent person/shop to have them available.

I only recall seeing a Williams 6 years back at Dillon’s.

Some other shops you can keep an eye on are Horn Guys, Horn Stash, Baltimore Brass.
I was hoping some of the Williams experts would chime in thanks for that input! Much appreciated. Horn Stash was completely new to me and I thought Baltimore had closed its doors, but good to see they're still active. Will add those to my list and put my hopes on Noah.

Not a problem at all. J. Landress in NYC had a Williams/Wallace available not too long ago, so that might be another shop to keep your eyes on. Reverb app is also a good place as well.

slipmo · Post by **slipmo** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:08 pm

I'll do my best to manifest a model 8 or 9 for you Erik. They are fairly rare but LA probably still has a few Williams treasures in closets and attics.

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 6:44 pm

CalgaryTbone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:24 pm No - pretty old (maybe Wallace/Williams) and it had tuning in the slide - small bore for sure.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256251871004
It's post-Wallace, but has the fancy floral engraving (and likely still the Williams-Wallace design). Condition doesn't look too bad, with the exception of end crook.

The Wallace-style horns just don't attract the same level of interest that the post-WWII Williams do.

Know what you are willing to pay, have that amount (plus a cushion) ready to go, and don't hesitate when the time comes.

Post by **Doug Elliott** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:18 pm

.475 bore! I wonder if that's accurate.

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:17 pm

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:18 pm .475 bore! I wonder if that's accurate.

Doubtful, given that it's marked as an "M" size. I'd expect at least .491", probably larger.
Most people don't know how to measure the bore of a trombone.

Fidbone · Post by **Fidbone** » Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:03 am

I’ve had 3 Williams 6’s in the past, funnily enough when I lived in Hamburg. Ended up selling them all for silly prices!
They do seem to be the trend at the moment since Dan, Klaus and Sebastian now play them.
All three are great players and good friends from my Hamburg days.
Viel Glück

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:34 am

slipmo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:08 pm I'll do my best to manifest a model 8 or 9 for you Erik. They are fairly rare but LA probably still has a few Williams treasures in closets and attics.

Thanks a lot, Noah! I'll make sure to check your website regularly

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:38 am

Fidbone wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:03 am I’ve had 3 Williams 6’s in the past, funnily enough when I lived in Hamburg. Ended up selling them all for silly prices!
They do seem to be the trend at the moment since Dan, Klaus and Sebastian now play them.
All three are great players and good friends from my Hamburg days.
Viel Glück

Thanks Chris! I think Ingo convinced us all to get those horns

and yes, all great players and always a lot of fun to play with them.

And no need to tell you, but you should have kept the horns or at least one of it

Fidbone · Post by **Fidbone** » Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:48 am

EriKon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:38 am

And no need to tell you, but you should have kept the horns or at least one of it

They didn’t do it for me to be honest.
Don’t worry I got squillions of Euro’s for them

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:37 pm

Seems like there are not many Williams horns around lately in general, no matter which model. When I was reading through the huge Williams thread of the old ttf, I got the impression that a horn pops up pretty regularly every now and then. But I've been observing the market for months already and I probably saw like 2 horns with one of them ended up in my hands. I guess people stick with their horns when they have one, knowing they have a small treasure to call their own.

Or are there any Williams news recently that I missed?

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:57 pm

Nothing new on the Williams front. I’ve been keeping an eye out as well and like you, haven’t seen anything pop up in awhile now.

Post by **Doug Elliott** » Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:46 pm

I will probably be selling one of my 6's at some point.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Fri Nov 17, 2023 5:30 pm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266506562292?m ... media=COPY

This looks like a marvelous Tulsa horn built by the late John Duda.

I know Richard loved his Duda built horns and I suspect this one will surely please.

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:56 am

Wow! Stunning horn! Unfortunately seller is not happy about shipping to Europe, but I will follow that auction.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:15 pm

.520 bore. Interesting.

Post by **Doug Elliott** » Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:16 pm

That's the bore size of an 8.

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:33 am

.522 I guess. If I remember correctly from the Williams thread, the tools for the 8 and 9 were .520

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:01 am

Circa 1975 price list.

Post by **Matt K** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:34 am

Interesting, inflation adjusted that’s about the current price for a boutique

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:32 pm

viewtopic.php?t=33704

Just posted in the classifieds! Great price for an 8!

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:34 am

One day of not being around and already missing out on a great horn. But again, just US buyers

probably going to be hard to find an 8 or 9 and someone who's willing to ship overseas besides of Noah.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:00 am

A Burbank (Earl) 6 popped up on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/325900163341?m ... media=COPY

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:02 am

EriKon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:34 am One day of not being around and already missing out on a great horn. But again, just US buyers probably going to be hard to find an 8 or 9 and someone who's willing to ship overseas besides of Noah.

I can assure you that it’s going to a good home.

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:07 am

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:02 am
EriKon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:34 am One day of not being around and already missing out on a great horn. But again, just US buyers probably going to be hard to find an 8 or 9 and someone who's willing to ship overseas besides of Noah.
I can assure you that it’s going to a good home.

I'm sure about that!

your home?

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:51 am

EriKon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:07 am
HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:02 am

I can assure you that it’s going to a good home.
I'm sure about that! your home?

I like to think of it as an early Christmas gift to myself

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Sat Nov 25, 2023 4:28 pm

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:51 am
EriKon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:07 am

I'm sure about that! your home?
I like to think of it as an early Christmas gift to myself

Well, congrats and Merry Christmas in that case!

Looking forward to hear about your impression of the horn!

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:48 pm

Another one in the classifieds! Earl LA 6!

viewtopic.php?t=33739&sid=51a202dd6a433 ... a9ca8b9a52

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:31 am

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 5:30 pm https://www.ebay.com/itm/266506562292?m ... media=COPY

This looks like a marvelous Tulsa horn built by the late John Duda.

I know Richard loved his Duda built horns and I suspect this one will surely please.

So did anyone here end up with this Duda 8?

onetrombone · Post by **onetrombone** » Fri Dec 08, 2023 1:20 am

That Duda 8 is one beautiful horn!

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:46 am

onetrombone wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 1:20 am That Duda 8 is one beautiful horn!

It sure is! I’m sure the new owner is happy with it.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:28 pm

Picked up a Donelson, Tennessee 8 bell from JB3 over the weekend. This was a complete bell section I had awhile back before I sold it to James. He swapped this bell with another Tennessee bell he preferred a little more. The plan is to attach this bell to a Bach 42BO chassis that I have.

The group photo from L-R is an Earl bell section, Jay’s, and Bob’s. All model 8.

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:12 pm

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:28 pm Picked up a Donelson, Tennessee 8 bell from JB3 over the weekend. This was a complete bell section I had awhile back before I sold it to James. He swapped this bell with another Tennessee bell he preferred a little more. The plan is to attach this bell to a Bach 42BO chassis that I have.

The group photo from L-R is an Earl bell section, Jay’s, and Bob’s. All model 8.

Already finished that project? How does it play?

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Sun Jan 21, 2024 6:15 pm

EriKon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:12 pm
HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:28 pm Picked up a Donelson, Tennessee 8 bell from JB3 over the weekend. This was a complete bell section I had awhile back before I sold it to James. He swapped this bell with another Tennessee bell he preferred a little more. The plan is to attach this bell to a Bach 42BO chassis that I have.

The group photo from L-R is an Earl bell section, Jay’s, and Bob’s. All model 8.
Already finished that project? How does it play?

Negative. Haven’t had the chance to drop the horn off to my local tech. Hoping to have it done by/before spring break.

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:23 am

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 6:15 pm
EriKon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:12 pm

Already finished that project? How does it play?
Negative. Haven’t had the chance to drop the horn off to my local tech. Hoping to have it done by/before spring break.

I see! Fingers crossed it works out. Happy to see a picture once it's done

MrWinkie · Post by **MrWinkie** » Wed Mar 20, 2024 9:28 pm

There is a gentleman in Portland, Oregon USA who currently has four Williams trombones for sale:

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg ... 02818.html

EriKon · Post by **EriKon** » Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:44 pm

Wow! Drew, I think you have to go to Portland for a short vacation

But 8 grands for a Williams 4? That one must be in pristine condition then even if it is a quite early Earl horn.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:21 pm

EriKon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:44 pm Wow! Drew, I think you have to go to Portland for a short vacation

But 8 grands for a Williams 4? That one must be in pristine condition then even if it is a quite early Earl horn.

That is quite the collection! But this is me currently.

PanicSlim · Post by **PanicSlim** » Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:34 pm

I had just posted a message to Drew before I saw this thread. He’d have right of first refusal, but I have probably the last John Duda W6 made that I’m inclined to sell. Have about $3500 invested. Duda (referred by Williams expert the late John Noxon) did such a masterful job replacing inners on my original Earl Williams 6 that I had him make a spare slide. He put in his own lead pipe which seemed to me beat out the original slide with either the original EW6 or Herrick lead pipes that came with that horn. Duda eventually agreed to make a bell section for me so I’d have two complete horns. I waited a couple years for the thing and had it just before his demise. A great loss. The bell section stamped JRD W6 on the bell throat (in the manner of EW). I think I’ll keep the original W6, it’s a little heavier than standard W6 bell according to Duda (I sent it to him when selecting slide receivers from his stock of original Earl Williams parts), but they both play the same to me. The Duda 6 is possibly a bit thinner, livelier, projecting, better for lead work? Pictures on request.

Jim

Chazzer69 · Post by **Chazzer69** » Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:25 pm

There is a Donelson Williams 4 on eBay that BAC has jacked up.

The bell might be salvageable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296209237315?m ... media=COPY

Elow · Post by **Elow** » Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:14 pm

Chazzer69 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:25 pm There is a Donelson Williams 4 on eBay that BAC has jacked up. The bell might be salvageable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296209237315?m ... media=COPY

I don’t think that’s too crazy of a mod. If the instrument was badly damaged I would rather it be playable than to be in original shape and in poor condition. This is one of the more “tasteful” mods from BAC. Some of the stuff that come out of the factory is really wacky stuff

Chazzer69 · Post by **Chazzer69** » Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:26 pm

I'm probably just subconsciously mad cuz I don't have the $3100 to buy it!

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:31 am

Elow wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:14 pmI don’t think that’s too crazy of a mod. If the instrument was badly damaged I would rather it be playable than to be in original shape and in poor condition. This is one of the more “tasteful” mods from BAC. Some of the stuff that come out of the factory is really wacky stuff

It might not be a mod at all. It's possible this was built around a leftover Donelson 4 bell. The slide is .500" bore, so the tubes aren't original. Some of the other parts are clearly NOT Williams (like the tuning slide brace and upper bell brace), while others could be Williams or BAC (cork barrel brace and cork barrels).

Given the cost of putting something like this together, the asking price isn't entirely unreasonable.