King 2b Liberty, info on bore size variations.

ibell · Post by **ibell** » Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:25 pm

Hi all, got my hands on a couple of old king's to try (and buy) a '92 3b silver sonic and what I think, going by serial numbers, is a '56 2b Liberty. I read on another thread here that 2b's became dual bore after 1938 but I'm sure this isn't as fits if I flip outer slide upsidedown. Think I saw a YouTube clip that mentioned 60's was when they became dual. Just wondering which is correct and would that mean both inners are .481 It sounds quite different to my regular small horn (6h) and has a very small bell but it's growing on me. Is there a general preference for the dual or an era or set up most sought after?
Any info and general thought appreciated, Cheers.

ibell · Post by **ibell** » Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:25 pm

Hi all, got my hands on a couple of old king's to try (and buy) a '92 3b silver sonic and what I think, going by serial numbers, is a '56 2b Liberty. I read on another thread here that 2b's became dual bore after 1938 but I'm sure this isn't as fits if I flip outer slide upsidedown. Think I saw a YouTube clip that mentioned 60's was when they became dual. Just wondering which is correct and would that mean both inners are .481 It sounds quite different to my regular small horn (6h) and has a very small bell but it's growing on me. Is there a general preference for the dual or an era or set up most sought after?
Any info and general thought appreciated, Cheers.

Estraven · Post by **Estraven** » Wed Jan 10, 2024 4:56 am

The 2B Liberty inner slide tubes have the same outside diameter, but have different (by 0.010”) inside diameters. The difference is hard to see, but can be easily heard; tap the inner tubes with a fingernail, and you’ll hear the difference in the tubes’ notes due to the different wall thicknesses.

The mouthpiece-side inner tube is 0.481” i.d, the other is 0.491”.

There are other versions of the 2B that are single-bore, I’ll leave it to others to discuss those.

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:05 am

You can't check dual bore on a 2B by flipping the slide. Inner tubes have the same Outside Diameter but different Inside Diameter.

The non-dual was called Liberty. The Dual Bore 2B Liberty dates from around 1935.

Recently there was a single bore 2B meaning size, not dual bore that was designed for Jiggs Whigham.

If you really have a 1956 2B it will have a rather extensive engraving and a fair amount of lacquer loss (it's nearly 75 years old, after all). If it's neat and clean, King rolled over serial numbers from 999999 to 100000 in the late 1990s.

Briande · Post by **Briande** » Wed Jan 10, 2024 11:22 am

My guess is your 1956 isn’t a 1956 given the serial number switch. But if it says “2B” on a horn pre Jiggs 2B (pre-1990s?) it’s dual bore. That’s literally what “2B” originally stood for to differentiate it from the plain “liberty” which was single bore. If you can post bell pictures of what you believe to be a 1956 horn that would help verify that.

ibell · Post by **ibell** » Wed Jan 10, 2024 9:41 pm

Thanks for the info all. Seems like it is a dual bore based on all your info and closer inspection of inner slides. I used to have a dual in a another brand and outer slides where marginally different (so couldn't flip). It was this YouTube clip - from the excellent Paul the trombonist that around 50 sec in gives a bore size history which I might have miss understood. Based on Bell engraving/size, serial number 3435##, case and laquer wear I'm certain it's a '55 to '59 2b in very good condition.
The info that 2b literally means 2 bores makes sense however as 3b's 4b's etc aren't it didn't occur to me. Cheers Ian

Post by **BGuttman** » Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:29 am

His bore size info is a little off. The 2B Liberty was the first .481/.491 instrument (1938).

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:28 am

ibell wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 9:41 pm from the "excellent" Paul the trombonist that around 50 sec in gives a bore size history which I might have miss understood.

You didn't misunderstand - you were misinformed. Paul was just blowing smoke and making up "facts" - he does not know the history of the King 2B. From the get-go in 1938 the model 2B was dual-bore (0.481"/0.491"), and the name reflected its 2 bores. There was no bore change in 1963 - Paul just made that up!

They did later add a single-bore Jiggs Whighsm model to the 2B family, but that was introduced much more recently.

You are right to be confused about the other "B" models, since the 3B, 4B, etc. are not dual bore.

ibell · Post by **ibell** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:10 am

Thanks all for the great info, bought both! Join my '63 6h, I'm a sucker for old horns but all will be used.

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:03 am

Posaunus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:28 amThere was no bore change in 1963 - Paul just made that up!

Which is a bit odd, as the information is right there on the hnwhite.com website for all to see:
https://www.hnwhite.com/trombonepage
Although King's habit of listing a single bore size in their catalogs could certainly lead to some confusion.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:28 amYou are right to be confused about the other "B" models, since the 3B, 4B, etc. are not dual bore.

Now that's disappointing. I'd really like to see an octuple bore slide.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:43 pm

JohnL wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:03 am
Posaunus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:28 amThere was no bore change in 1963 - Paul just made that up!
Which is a bit odd, as the information is right there on the hnwhite.com website for all to see:
https://www.hnwhite.com/trombonepage

Paul's an interesting guy, and a pretty good trombone player, but he's not a trained reporter. If he has no factual information, he's not reluctant to speculate or make things up.

PACHACUTEC · Post by **PACHACUTEC** » Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:57 am

file:///D:/Downloads/king%20liberty.jpg

HELLO FRIENDS, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THIS THREAD, COULD YOU HELP ME WITH THIS LOGO, TO WHAT PERIOD DOES IT APPROXIMATELY BELONG? IT IS FOR SALE ONLINE, THE SELLER DOES NOT KNOW IF IT IS DUAL BORE, I DO NOT KNOW IF IT IS DUAL BORE, BUT I REALLY WANT A DUAL BORE?

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Oct 09, 2024 3:58 pm

PACHACUTEC wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:57 am file:///D:/Downloads/king%20liberty.jpg

HELLO FRIENDS, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THIS THREAD, COULD YOU HELP ME WITH THIS LOGO, TO WHAT PERIOD DOES IT APPROXIMATELY BELONG? IT IS FOR SALE ONLINE, THE SELLER DOES NOT KNOW IF IT IS DUAL BORE, I DO NOT KNOW IF IT IS DUAL BORE, BUT I REALLY WANT A DUAL BORE?

You have apparently pointed to a file local to your computer, which means we can't see it. Where is the picture online? Point us to the ad.

Note that almost any King 2B is dual bore. The single bore version is usually labeled "Liberty" and does not include the 2B on the bell.

PACHACUTEC · Post by **PACHACUTEC** » Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:33 pm

Mr. BGuttman, it seems that with his comment he has cleared up my doubt, the engraving on the bell is KING 2B Liberty made in USA, I attach the link

https://www.ebay.com/itm/226142595453?_ ... R4rc4pjdZA