Experiences shipping horns outside of the U.S.

[Mamaposaune]

This thread is inspired by the recent discussion about buying being easier than selling.
If I advertise an instrument here on TC and do not sell within a reasonable amount of time, I will post it on the various fb marketplace groups, always stating CONUS only and PayPal payment. (Based on cost, hassle, risk of damage to the horn, risk of being scammed)
No matter. I am always flooded with requests to ship overseas, frequently the responses are in Spanish. Recently I posted a student level horn, 60's vintage but near perfect shape, for $300. Multiple nibbles, my usual reply that I will not ship outside of the U.S.
Well, I got roped in on this one. Long story short, "Lou" as I will call him, is a professional musician stationed in the Peruvian Air Force; he wanted the Cleveland to play in a salsa band. He stated that I could ship it to relatives in Maryland, he would wire the $ to them and they would send the PayPal payment to me. I agreed. However after a phone conversation with the relatives, suffice to say they wanted nothing to do with it.
Since I had agreed to the sale, I decided to check with USPS on the cost to send it to Peru. It was far less than I expected - $160. with tracking and insurance; I told Lou I would ship it to Peru. Fast forward - hours spent packing, texting, (160 messages; additional pics and videos, switching to a sturdier case and throwing in an additional m.p. and mutes, etc. etc.) The relatives did send payment after setting up an account. The stinger came when I went to ship it - apparently the clerk had been mistaken about the insurance and tracking. It only covered the package until it left the U.S.
I left, feeling so frustrated I was ready to give it to the 1st person I saw. Ultimately, I gave Lou 3 options: 1. Total refund. 2. Ship uninsured with no tracking, his risk. 3. Ship to relatives in Maryland with a refund on the difference in shipping.
Crickets for a few days. Now, it is on the way to Maryland and it is between Lou and his relatives how it gets to Peru.
Never again!!!

[ithinknot]

Yikes. To be fair, the problem here fundamentally isn't the overseas element, it's that you got involved with the many manifestations of nonsense.

I've bought and sold lots of stuff internationally, and if you're dealing with adults it's fine. As soon as you get into endless communication it's only ever going to end badly ...if they even make it to paying.

As a buyer, I give my address in the first message, and I've already obtained an estimated shipping quote but encourage the seller to look into other options. I make it clear that shipping is at my risk, that I understand there may be customs fees with which I will deal, and that I'll add on 3.5% to cover the PayPal Goods and Services and currency conversion fees. No one has ever refused.

When I'm selling, if they ask a question that's answered in the listing, or is extremely obvious from the photos, bye bye. If they can't read an advert, how well can you expect a customs bill to work out? Brutal, sure, but it's 100% worth it.

[Burgerbob]

I think it's pretty well understood that there is no insurance shipping abroad. It's the price of business crossing borders. Never had problems myself.

[Doug Elliott]

A lot of times people will have friends or relatives travelling back and forth who can take it along.

Three times now I've had overseas packages, addressed correctly, returned with no explanation. Paid the postage for nothing and it usually takes at least two months to get it back.

[brassmedic]

I'm amazed how many people ask to have an item shipped overseas but don't understand the rules of their own country. I frequently have to explain that I do not have to pay U.S. taxes to ship it to them, but if their country taxes it on arrival, that is entirely their responsibility to take care of. I've also had people ask me to undervalue the item on the customs form but then insure it for the full real value. Um, not possible.