Eb bass trumpet shank size?

[Mimartti]

Hello, I managed to get Alexander Eb bass trumpet and now wondering which mouthpiece to use with it. Bach 12c works othervise nicely but due to too big shank I can’t insert it deep enough and hence my tuning is too low. One solution would be to put small shank trombone mp to lathe and cut the shank to proper size but I wonder if there was any other already existing solutions?

[BGuttman]

Don't know about the Alexander, but the Bach Eb "Bass Trumpet" took a shank in between trombone and trumpet. They had one mouthpiece, called 9AT, which was similar to an Alto Horn mouthpiece.

[harrisonreed]

Don't Eb bass trumpets take trumpet shank mouthpieces or something similar? They are usually played by trumpeters, vs the C bass trumpet which is usually played by a trombonist.

[JohnL]

How well does a standard trumpet mouthpiece fit? That'll give a frame of reference.

You might try an Eb alto/tenor horn mouthpiece in it.

Doug Elliott's alto-S shank might also be a viable alternative. Hopefully he'll chime in here.

[CalgaryTbone]

There's no absolute standard - some horns intuit range are geared fro trumpet players, while others are trombone-sized. And like Bruce said, there are some that are in-between. See if a trumpet mouthpiece fits, and if not, you will need to find something in between. It may be possible to turn down a small shank trombone mouthpiece to fit, but that would take a lot of trial and error, and may not work well. If you go that route, try something you won't mind ruining if the lathe process doesn't work.

Jim Scott

[CalgaryTbone]

Sorry - damn auto correct - some horns in that range...

JS

[Doug Elliott]

If you're interested in one of my mouthpieces so you can use a familiar rim size on a shallow cup, I can make a shank to fit if you can give me a reference like exactly how far a standard small shank goes in. However some German instruments have a slightly different receiver taper. I would probably make the backbore smaller too. If you turn down a standard mouthpiece enough, there's a good chance you would also need to shorten it.

[Mimartti]

Thank you for responses! I bought this instrument to be able to teach a few alto horn students since as tuba/bass trombonist alto horn mp is waaaaay out of my comfort zone. I tried the alto horn mp today on it and that shank though giving a tight fit went to in my opinion bit too deep so I guess something between small shank trombone and alto horn would be optimal? I have an access to metal lathe so I could do some experimenting with some really cheap mouthpieces. Doug’s offer would sound tempting too, though it propably wouldn’t hurt to give quite accurate parameters since I live in Europe and would be nice to hit it right on the first order.. Cheers.

[BGuttman]

I had a Couesnon "bass" flugelhorn in Eb. I turned down the shank of a Conn 3 trombone mouthpiece so it fit and worked fine. I suspect you may be able to do the same. I used a Conn 3 since they are pretty cheap and if I messed it up it wouldn't be a big problem.

[Finetales]

Trumpets in low Eb are some of the most confusing out there, as there are actually three distinct instruments that are all the same length (kind of like tenor and bass trombones).

Low Eb orchestral trumpet - very narrow bore, plays in the same range as a normal trumpet, essentially a natural trumpet with valves, what Heldenleben was written for (trumpet shank)

Eb alto trumpet - a larger, modern instrument that plays a 5th under Bb trumpet, still played by trumpet players and using either a large trumpet or alto trumpet mouthpiece (trumpet shank, or sometimes a slightly oversized trumpet shank (Bach))

Eb bass trumpet - even larger, sounds like any other orchestral bass trumpet, played with small trombone mouthpiece like any other bass trumpet (small trombone shank)

What mouthpiece your horn will take and work best with depends on which kind of trumpet it is, and all three of these instruments can be very picky with mouthpiece choice. The Bach 9AT alto trumpet mouthpiece is a nice in between if it'll fit - shank a bit larger than trumpet/alto horn, a bit smaller than small trombone. Alto horn mouthpieces will also usually be too deep.

[Doug Elliott]

Alto horn shanks are almost the same as trumpet shanks. I think that instrument needs something between that and a small trombone shank. I'm going to guess the receiver opening is about .453" or 11.5mm, which means the end of the shank would be .403" or 10.24mm.
If you have a way to measure the opening, check it out.

[Finetales]

Yep - that's what the Bach 9AT is, right in between trumpet and small trombone.

[Mimartti]

Opened Bach catalogue and and checked the 9AT, with 19 mm rim it’s basically a big alto horn mouthpiece size and won’t work for me. I’ll try to measure the opening, that’ll will give more info. Just to clarify it works great (very subjectively) with Bach 12c, just drags a little the tuning down so just something a tai smaller in shank would do the trick. Are alto trombones built with regular small shank receivers or are they even smaller?

[MrHCinDE]

If you have access to one, maybe a Yamaha 48A is worth a try? It is marketed primarily as an alto trombone mouthpiece and of all the pieces I‘ve tried so far it works best for me on my (Bb) bass trumpet. It has a small trombone shank but as I recall goes a bit deeper into some of my German small shank instruments than some other small shank pieces.

Thomann have a good returns policy…

[Doug Elliott]

Yes, a 48A is definitely worth trying. Or turn down the shank on it. I don't have one to look at, but chances are good that would work.