Bach 7C equivalent for large bore.

[Trhtrbn]

On my small bore straight tenors I use a Bach 7C, I really like this mouthpiece. Unfortunately I do not seem to be able to find a large shank version. I do not want to use a shank adapter. Can you all tell me of any mouthpieces with the same rim, cup, throat, and back bore as the Bach 7C, but in large shank?

[tbonesullivan]

A 7C with an identical backbore to the small shank version would have a large step at the end of the backbore, which would pretty much be the same as using a shank adapter, possibly more abrupt.

You really shouldn't be using the same backbore / throat on a large bore tenor as you use on a small bore, IMHO.

[Trhtrbn]

A 7C with an identical backbore to the small shank version would have a large step at the end of the backbore, which would pretty much be the same as using a shank adapter, possibly more abrupt.

You really shouldn't be using the same backbore / throat on a large bore tenor as you use on a small bore, IMHO.

That makes sense, I have a Bach 6.5AL now, but I find it to be tiring compared to the 7C?

[dcslideman]

Look at Shilke 47L maybe? .984" inside. May be a little deeper? They actually list a 46L which would be smaller ID. The Yamaha 47L is a little bigger but may also be close enough? Of course its not guaranteed the sound will be great in combination with the large bore.

[Trhtrbn]

Thanks

[JohnL]

This might be a job for Doug Elliott.

[dukesboneman]

I currently have a Bach 7 with a Bass shank for sale if your interested. I used it for years on a Conn 88H

[Trhtrbn]

Thanks, but I just sold the large bore. I am mostly working on jazz improvisation, so I am concentrating on the small bore ysl-3530r.

[Doug Elliott]

Less than 5 hours after you asked about a mouthpiece for it?

[hyperbolica]

Thanks, but I just sold the large bore....

Perfect. That was the solution I was going to suggest. Glad you saw it first.

[Trhtrbn]

I have dentures now and I have been doing a lot of experimenting to come up with a combination that works best. I have had the large bore up for sale for a long time, it just happened to sell just after I had asked the question. I have finally found that a small bore horn with a Bach 12E or YAC 45A works best for my completely renewed embouchure because of the dentures. I was a tuba player for many years so I thought a large bore, or even a bass bone would work better, I have tried everything from a 12E equivalent to a 1-1/4G equivalent, in Bach and YAC versions, I tried large bore from a YBL-612 to a Bach Omega, and small bore horns, from a YSL-352 to a YSL-812, however, with the dentures it actually seems to work better for me to go smaller not larger. I am playing the YSL-3530R with a YAC45A, this works best for me, IMHO, and I am sticking with what works. I apologize for all the back and forth questions, but I really do appreciate all the help and patience. Thank you all.

[Vegasbound]

I would suggest a lesson with Doug, get the best out of your new chops

[Trhtrbn]

I would suggest a lesson with Doug, get the best out of your new chops

Thanks for the recommendation. I would like to work on fundamentals and learning to improvise for a few months to really get a good and consistent foundation in my playing before I think I will be ready to have a lesson with someone of Doug’s caliber. I am my own worse critic and need to build my confidence up, first. I have only been playing again for a couple of months and I am still having unfocused attacks and hitting wrong partials too often, etc. I will be getting local lessons in person from a jazz trombonist and when I feel more confident I will then approach someone like Doug or maybe David Vining or both.

[afugate]

Thanks for the recommendation. I would like to work on fundamentals and learning to improvise for a few months to really get a good and consistent foundation in my playing before I think I will be ready to have a lesson with someone of Doug’s caliber. I am my own worse critic and need to build my confidence up, first. I have only been playing again for a couple of months and I am still having unfocused attacks and hitting wrong partials too often, etc. I will be getting local lessons in person from a jazz trombonist and when I feel more confident I will then approach someone like Doug or maybe David Vining or both.

Why not start with a solid foundation by learning how to do it properly?

I could have spent my life playing correctly instead of spending most of it playing incorrectly.

--Andy in OKC

[tbonesullivan]

In my limited experience, constantly switching gear is not exactly productive. I would pick a horn, and learn to play it. It's going to take longer than a few months to really build up a foundation and see if the mouthpiece is right for you and the type of playing you want to do.

[harrisonreed]

"You need a bigger mouthpiece"

[Posaunus]

Trhtrbn,

I know you're on your own journey, and perhaps unwilling to take more advice from strangers.
But I guess I can't help it.

• The Bach 12E and Yamaha YAC 45A are (as you well know) unusually small mouthpieces for even a 0.500" bore trombone. Even though you are apparently still experimenting, you may eventually (soon?) find these too small to achieve a "modern" trombone sound. You may then start searching for something else, wasting yet more time and money trying to find the "golden egg."

• You are apparently trying to teach yourself by practicing fundamentals, etc. And then you want to move on to lessons with a jazz trombonist. And then perhaps with a lesson with someone "of Doug [Elliott]’s caliber."

As Andy (afugate) wrote, you probably have this sequence out of order. A session or two with Doug Elliott (he's not a god, just an excellent teacher and honest broker) could possibly save you lots of heartache and wasted time:

• A video consultation (with a smart phone, tablet, or laptop) could point you toward the best mouthpieces for your face.

• Then a video lesson could point you in the right direction for some focused practice on your own.

As Andy said, "Why not start with a solid foundation ...?"

[Trhtrbn]

Trhtrbn,

I know you're on your own journey, and perhaps unwilling to take more advice from strangers.
But I guess I can't help it.

• The Bach 12E and Yamaha YAC 45A are (as you well know) unusually small mouthpieces for even a 0.500" bore trombone. Even though you are apparently still experimenting, you may eventually (soon?) find these too small to achieve a "modern" trombone sound. You may then start searching for something else, wasting yet more time and money trying to find the "golden egg."

• You are apparently trying to teach yourself by practicing fundamentals, etc. And then you want to move on to lessons with a jazz trombonist. And then perhaps with a lesson with someone "of Doug [Elliott]’s caliber."

As Andy (afugate) wrote, you probably have this sequence out of order. A session or two with Doug Elliott (he's not a god, just an excellent teacher and honest broker) could possibly save you lots of heartache and wasted time:

• A video consultation (with a smart phone, tablet, or laptop) could point you toward the best mouthpieces for your face.

• Then a video lesson could point you in the right direction for some focused practice on your own.

As Andy said, "Why not start with a solid foundation ...?"

I have found an instructor near me named Nick Zavala and I am starting lessons tomorrow. I have also come to the realization that I need a bigger mouthpiece than the YAC45A, as well. I am sticking with the YSL-3530R 0.485 bore with a Bach 7C, as I am hoping to get into the swing ensemble on 2nd or 3rd trombone. I find the 7C more comfortable than a 6-1/2AL. No more equipment questions for awhile, lol. I am going to the rehearsals for the swing ensemble and sit in when they start up again in August. Thanks for the help everyone.

[JeffBone44]

I would suggest a lesson with Doug, get the best out of your new chops

Thanks for the recommendation. I would like to work on fundamentals and learning to improvise for a few months to really get a good and consistent foundation in my playing before I think I will be ready to have a lesson with someone of Doug’s caliber. I am my own worse critic and need to build my confidence up, first. I have only been playing again for a couple of months and I am still having unfocused attacks and hitting wrong partials too often, etc. I will be getting local lessons in person from a jazz trombonist and when I feel more confident I will then approach someone like Doug or maybe David Vining or both.

I was having the exact same problems as you only a couple of months ago. After two lessons with Doug, my percentage of missed notes and hitting the wrong partial has gone down by a huge percentage, I am now able to play passages in the low register that used to be nearly impossible for me, articulations are much cleaner, and my sound has opened up very nicely. There is no reason to wait to have a lesson with someone like Doug or Dave Vining. The perfect time is now. Chances are that they can help you become a better player almost instantly.

That being said, I looked up the teacher that you mentioned and it looks like he has a solid resume. Good luck and I hope that things work out for you.