Next step from a 7C?

[frankgalante]

Hi everyone, today i wanted to ask: whats the next step from a 7C? (Im not that into mouthpieces)

I ve been play for about 4 years with my Bach 7C Mouthpiece (before i played a 12C) with my small bore trombone .500
In the last few weeks i was noticing that my articulations felt kind of "cut" in between notes. I like the birght sound of the 7C a lot, very jazzy, but its frecuent to miss some tones.

Yesterday at a local shop, i tried a Bach 5 mouthpiece that they had there, it was instantly better, fast lips slurs and articultation were really good and middle to low register sounded better. But the sound felt wayyy to dark for my style of playing and very far from the bright sound of a 7C, and it required more air. (When i asked if they had something similar but brigther a guy answered "it can be a recepie for disaster")

So whats the next step from a 7C, if i want a bigger mouthpiece but keep the bright sound for lead.

[Doug Elliott]

You've discovered what I (and others) mention a lot here... Many if not most embouchures function better on larger inner rim sizes - just like you said, "instantly better, fast lips slurs and articulation were really good and middle to low register sounded better." But to keep the sound you like, the larger rim size needs to be paired with a shallower cup, more similar to the 7C.

There aren't many stock mouthpieces like that, but I manufacture my own brand of mouthpieces that allow combinations like that and beyond..

[Slidehamilton]

And they are excellent mouthpieces!

[frankgalante]

You've discovered what I (and others) mention a lot here... Many if not most embouchures function better on larger inner rim sizes - just like you said, "instantly better, fast lips slurs and articulation were really good and middle to low register sounded better." But to keep the sound you like, the larger rim size needs to be paired with a shallower cup, more similar to the 7C.

There aren't many stock mouthpieces like that, but I manufacture my own brand of mouthpieces that allow combinations like that and beyond..

Hello Doug! Thank you for the advice, i ve been told that you are one of the perosons here who knows best about mouthpieces. I wanted to ask you if its possible to borrow some of your time if you could do a lesson or a call. I cant quite point to the direction i want to go (speaking about mouthpieces) and make a decision, as i said i dont know much about mouthpieces. Although i m not from the states i m sure i can manage a mouthpiece conversation well.
Once again, thank you Doug!

[Doug Elliott]

Sure, I'm in Eastern Time (Washington DC) and this week my time is flexible.
Just tell me when is convenient for you. Send me a PM here.

[harrisonreed]

Based on nothing:

XT103, F cup (large bore), C+ (small bore)

That seems to work for a lot of people.

[glenp]

Based on nothing:

XT103, F cup (large bore), C+ (small bore)

That seems to work for a lot of people.

Are you recommending an XT over an LT? If so why?

I’ve played both series and for the shallow cup, I think I prefer LT but can’t put my finger on why. So I’m curious why you suggested XT.

Don’t want to derail the thread from the OP; just a quick sidebar.

[hyperbolica]

Based on nothing:

XT103, F cup (large bore), C+ (small bore)

That seems to work for a lot of people.

Are you recommending an XT over an LT? If so why?

I’ve played both series and for the shallow cup, I think I prefer LT but can’t put my finger on why. So I’m curious why you suggested XT.

Don’t want to derail the thread from the OP; just a quick sidebar.

not to answer for either Harry or Doug, but the XT allows you to graduate to an even larger rim if you want to, while still being able to get down to the C or even B cup for brighter sound. Plus, the blank of XT is heavier than the LT, which also has an effect. I use the xt104c2 combination for a bright 500 sound. F cup I don't use until about 525 bore. G cup for 547. Have to move to a bigger series/rims/cups for bass.

[harrisonreed]

Based on nothing:

XT103, F cup (large bore), C+ (small bore)

That seems to work for a lot of people.

Are you recommending an XT over an LT? If so why?

I’ve played both series and for the shallow cup, I think I prefer LT but can’t put my finger on why. So I’m curious why you suggested XT.

Don’t want to derail the thread from the OP; just a quick sidebar.

The XT series has the most "normal" range of rim sizes and the most cup and shank options. If you work in XT world, you're pretty much all set.

Basically, the XT is the most versatile range to use components from.

[Posaunus]

Somewhat boils down to personal preference. I really like Doug Elliott's mouthpieces. I've been happy with Doug's LT series Rims for large-bore tenor and ST series for small-bore tenor (and MB for bass trombone). I seem to be able to find very workable combinations of Cup and Shank for my playing needs.

[Doug Elliott]

I generally recommend LT for players who need or prefer rims from about 99 to 102 range, and XT for those who need or prefer 102-105 size range. There is some overlap, and sometimes it depends on how much you're playing - an amateur who plays a couple of time a week probably wouldn't want XT even if they actually would play best on a 103 or 104.

I played on LT 104 for years before I started making the XT series.

"Personal preference" is correct, except it's often based only on what you know and have tried of the commonly available pieces.

[glenp]

That makes sense. I typically use a 101 or 102, so that might explain my preference for the LT.

Back to the OP:

As others have said, you want a wider rim with a shallower cup. There are a few manufacturers who make pieces with those requirements.

Bach 6 3/4C: I didn’t like *my* sound on this piece but it works for some folks. It’s slightly narrower than the 5 though.

Doug Elliot makes great pieces. And you can definitely get what you’re looking for.

Marcinkiewicz makes some pieces that might fit your needs too.

And AR Resonance also makes pieces that’ll have the width with shallower cup. I’ve got one that I like as much as my DE piece. Can’t seem to choose between them yet. Rim profile on the AR is much flatter than the DE and Bach pieces.

[Bach5G]

I recently saw a reference to a Griego MCChesney mpc, said to be an improvement on Bob’s 7C. Might be worth giving Christan a call.