A mouthpiece change might not help anything, you may just need smarter practice

[imsevimse]

Although changing your mouthpiece may initially give you the impression that it sounds better and is the solution to your problems, it may not actually solve them. While I own over 100 mouthpieces, I'm not convinced that it was ever the cause of my embouchure issues. However, when I eventually resolved these issues by returning to a smaller mouthpiece, it could be argued that this mouthpiece was the real solution. What I believe resolved my embouchure issues was a better approach to my practice and my growth as a musician. I had learned so much that I needed time to process, including an embouchure change when I was 17, which forced me to start all over. I also changed the way I practiced from "just playing until no errors" to a sequence of "play, stop, analyze." By analyzing my playing, I noticed that I improved, which made me realize that I could do a lot more if I practiced smarter.

I recorded myself and practiced the concerts I wanted to play with self-made accompaniments. I bought a computer and manually entered the piano score note by note in a music program. This helped me to know every note in the piano score, which was unexpected but a bonus. In the '90s, I practiced with one of those giant tape recorders that were common in the '80s. I brought it with me to the practice rooms I used, and when I played in that context, I developed and started using a natural vibrato, which helped me evolve musically. All these factors made me take a lot of responsibility for my own progress.

I also listened to my friends' critiques and asked for feedback whenever I played with better players. I never got defensive if someone asked me to play something differently. I've always felt that in the end, it's my choice to learn something or not. I could choose not to listen to critics and be upset about it or I could learn from it, and I could even choose to try to do what they suggested even if I didn't agree. It was interesting to see if I could do it, and in the end, I didn't need to keep it. I chose to listen wisely.

All these things resolved my embouchure issues and other problems, taking me to the level I'm at today. Unfortunately, I wasted many years in the beginning because I started with a clarinet teacher who never let me hear a real trombone sound for the first four years. I was taught without technical instructions, only things like "that note is in third position, between second position and the bell" and "start the note as if you had a fly on your lips that you want to spit out." These things weren't entirely wrong and gave me something to try, but they didn't help me in-depth. I was also taught to play with a lot of tension that took years to overcome. Both my first and second teachers put their fists in my stomach, and I had to push against them while playing. They said this is how it should feel, but they were very wrong.

I first got in touch with a professional trombonist when I was 17 and had been mostly self-taught until then. He didn't talk much about mouthpieces and didn't recommend a change, but he taught me things that took me years to finally grasp and learn. In my case, I sounded bad on any mouthpiece back then. After I resolved the fundamental issues with my embouchure and was able to play the entire register, there were still technical things to learn.

Now, at my current level, changing mouthpieces can make a difference and help fine-tune things, but it only marginally helps me set off in certain directions of sound and articulation.

/Tom

[brassmedic]

Heresy!

[imsevimse]

Heresy!

Sometimes it has to be said

/Tom

[harrisonreed]

You're absolutely right. You can't use your gear effectively without a good teacher showing you how to do it, and mindful practice.

"Fine-tuning" though, is relative.

17 year old you probably thought a mouthpiece change had a huge, 100% impact on how you played, but to a listener the impact was probably 0%.

The you of today might think fine tuning something with a different mouthpiece might get you a 1% difference in how you play, but it might be perceptible to the audience. At a certain point in your playing life, that small gain in endurance or gain in flexibility is worth more than trying to finesse it.

In other words, the 1% fine-tuning for a very skilled musician is far greater than the perceived 100% difference for a beginner.

[BigBadandBass]

You're absolutely right. You can't use your gear effectively without a good teacher showing you how to do it, and mindful practice.

"Fine-tuning" though, is relative.

17 year old you probably thought a mouthpiece change had a huge, 100% impact on how you played, but to a listener the impact was probably 0%.

The you of today might think fine tuning something with a different mouthpiece might get you a 1% difference in how you play, but it might be perceptible to the audience. At a certain point in your playing life, that small gain in endurance or gain in flexibility is worth more than trying to finesse it.

In other words, the 1% fine-tuning for a very skilled musician is far greater than the perceived 100% difference for a beginner.

This is the statement and why I feel so many professional players have their own custom piece, horn or otherwise. When you’ve got 95-99% of it down, that 1% is a big deal

[trombonedemon]

Sound and air has always been my issues, thus I was injured on a tenor mouthpiece. My quest without leaving the trombone led me to Bass trombone. I really only ran into issues with intonation not embouchure. My focus has always started with technique no matter what the mouthpiece was after my injury . My technique improved the more air I can put through instrument. I was told you either have the chops or you don't at some point. Also I avoid mouthpieces by "trombone celebrities." Mouthpieces are sooooo personal.

[tbonesullivan]

Sound and air has always been my issues, thus I was injured on a tenor mouthpiece. My quest without leaving the trombone led me to Bass trombone. I really only ran into issues with intonation not embouchure. My focus has always started with technique no matter what the mouthpiece was after my injury . My technique improved the more air I can put through instrument. I was told you either have the chops or you don't at some point. Also I avoid mouthpieces by "trombone celebrities." Mouthpieces are sooooo personal.

You had a mouthpiece cause an injury? That's really something I've never heard of before. I can see bad habits, but how exactly did it cause an injury?

[BigBadandBass]

Sound and air has always been my issues, thus I was injured on a tenor mouthpiece. My quest without leaving the trombone led me to Bass trombone. I really only ran into issues with intonation not embouchure. My focus has always started with technique no matter what the mouthpiece was after my injury . My technique improved the more air I can put through instrument. I was told you either have the chops or you don't at some point. Also I avoid mouthpieces by "trombone celebrities." Mouthpieces are sooooo personal.

I’m gonna hazard a guess that the mouthpiece did not injure you, poor technique did, unless it’s raw brass and you’re getting lead poisoning a mouthpiece isn’t going to outright hurt you unless you’re not playing it correctly. I know personally for a long time I would cut my lip on sharper rims, literally cut my lip open. It wasn’t the piece, it was my bad technique.

I’m also gonna say you hear, you do either have the chops or don’t. They’re muscles, you need to work them out and develop them

Finally, celebrity mouthpiece can be great. The former alessi (now Artist) line from Griego is just a good set of tenor pieces and is designed to be a one stop shop for all tenor players. The Markey and GP (Gerry Pagano) from them are also just great bass pieces, remove the branding and that doesn’t change. Sure there are some cash grabs, but oversight on creation by some of the best players in the world cannot hurt

[Bach5G]

I’ve come around to thinking that the idea of a Holy Grail in equipment, whether mpcs or horns, is mostly a waste of time. Your gear has to be generally fit for purpose but mostly it’s practice and style. Bigger mostly means louder and darker. Fine if that’s what you’re after. I saw a photo this morning of chaps playing a pair of Elkhart 88Hs and an Elkhart 62H. Probably sounded great.

[trombonedemon]

I know the mouthpiece in it of itself did not injure me, but it was to small, backbore to small, and coupled with that sharp flat rim. Chop adjustments can be dangerous.

[GGJazz]

Hello all .

In my opinion , of course a mpc itself does not produce any improvement . You have to play in a correct , efficient way , ecc .

Anyway , a mpc that is wrong for us can prevent our improvement . Saying "wrong for us" I mean a mpc that does not fits us , in particolar for what is concerning the rim' ID ( too large , too small) , the rim' bite shape ( too sharp , too rounded) , and the throat ( too open , too tight ) .

So , I think that we improve our playing through a correct practice routine , but using a mpc that doesn' t hinder us . When we finally find this mpc that works for us , can be a sort of "Holy Grail" (just because it does not create further impediments to us) ..

Regards
Giancarlo

[Bach5G]

I know I’m flouting conventional wisdom, but I question whether a mouthpiece can be “wrong”. Brass mpcs, from French horn to tuba, come in all shapes and sizes. People adapt through practice.

[norbie2018]

Sure one can adapt, just like someone who finds comfort and success in a size 12 shoe can adapt to a size 11. Or size 13. But I get the feeling that they'll be pretty miserable. Fit matters.

[GGJazz]

Hello again.

I wrote above "wrong for us" , because I was meaning "wrong size" for our lips/face/embouchure .
Like for shoes , as Norbie2018 wrote .

I do not think that you can adapt to a mpc , if it is not your fit .

Same people may do it , of course .

Best regards
Giancarlo

[Bach5G]

I don’t think shoe size is a useful analogy.

[BigBadandBass]

I don’t think shoe size is a useful analogy.

I’ve heard the analogy flushed out like this:
- for a lot of people, a lot of shoes are good, some people may need specialty shoes, maybe you hike, trail run, rock climb or stand on your feet 12 hours a day. You may need a special shoe for that purpose or maybe you need a custom orthopedic shoe. Hence why if you’re unsure, it’s why you see a doctor, shoe specialist or go to a store and try them on and over time, your feet, gait and everything will change, intentionally or not.

I agree that it’s not the best, but I don’t know a better one

[GGJazz]

Hi Bach 5G .

Maybe you are right . Anyway , I think that this analogy have the only pourpose to show that same of ours body parts need to have comfort and support , to work at best . The feets with the right shoes , and the embouchure with the rigth mpc . With the word "right" I just mean something "taylor made" for our characteristic .

Of course , this is only my personal point of wiew !

Regards again
Giancarlo

[imsevimse]

Sure one can adapt, just like someone who finds comfort and success in a size 12 shoe can adapt to a size 11. Or size 13. But I get the feeling that they'll be pretty miserable. Fit matters.

The analogy with shoes is good and I agree the feel in the lips can be the same. I do believe there are some physical reasons why a certain player prefer one mouthpiece before another, but I also believe some players can play any mouthpiece and that they just need to adjust. Have a look at James Morrison as a proof of someone who can play lots of different mouthpieces and he also does it at highest professional level.

It's impossible to make a size 44 foot fit inside a size 32 shoe without breaking something but when we talk lips it is not quite the same thing physically. I haven't thin lips but I can still play a Bach 12E alto mouthpiece as well as a 1G Bass trombone mouthpiece. It is a mutual feeling but it is very different physical conditions. My first feeling if I switch fast from the larger to the smaller is very much like a shoe that doesn't fit, but the feeling is only temporary until I have adjusted, and for me the ability to switch is something that I have learned to do both easier and faster.

I'm not saying anyone should continue to play a mouthpiece they are not comfortable with, I'm just saying there are lots of other things to consider such as to find an effective technique. In some case like in my case it was perhaps the right thing to go back to the Benge 12C to work at the issues but it might also have been the right thing to stay on any of those mouthpieces if I just kept it and concentrated on improving my playing technique. I will never know, but I choose my path because I felt the problems were more obvious on that small mouthpiece.

What proves I might have been as successful on any of the mouthpieces I abandoned is that I now can play all today. Of course I prefer some mouthpieces before others. It might be because it helps me to improve that 1% of playing as Harrison said. If I pick one of the less preffered they still work, some things are just a bit different. Some gives an easier/fuller low register, some have their differences in articulation, some in response, some gives a lighter sound, some give more crisp in attacks, some makes flexibility easier, some makes it easier to play louder and so on. The mouthpieces are compromises of many things, that's what I've found.

To me today isn't to find a mouthpice to fit my face, but to get certain qualities that I want, but this wasn't at all the case in the 90's. Back then I wasn't at all flexible with mouthpieces. I could only play one mouthpiece, the current one, and my emboushure wasn't very robust and my playing technique wasn't consistent enough to pick up small qualities from a mouthpice. The mouthpiece then was a tool that just enabled me to get by on what ever I was playing, more or less.

/Tom

[ithinknot]

I don’t think shoe size is a useful analogy.

Perhaps more like shoes generally - certain styles (generally associated with certain situations) have often only been available in certain fits. So, historically, a non-ideally-fitting boot would still be preferable to a perfectly-fitting ballet shoe on a building site, but now that you could get either in any size, or something else entirely, why not?

Of course, the traditional pairings often have particular characteristics and associated performance practices... "People who could go bigger playing an 11C and doing that sotto voce fakeout thing from the third partial down (or shifting for extra volume)" is quite a recognizable sound, and no one is stopping them. (Of course, you can still do that effect on a larger rim if you want, but it's less... inevitable.)

[GGJazz]

Hello Tom .

Well , I think that to give a look to James Morrison to have a proof of something , is a bit strange idea.. He play trumpet , trombone , alto/tenor/baritone sax , ecc ... I think he is a too much super-skilled player , to made comparation with him..!!

Of course , one can play with all the existing size of mpcs , but in the long term , if you play daily as a professional musician , you will choose the piece/pieces that work at best . And these mpcs will be chosen according to your personal characteristic .

Regards
Giancarlo

[ithinknot]

Well , I think that give a look to James Morrison to have a proof of something , is a bit strange idea.. He play trumpet trombone , alto/tenor/baritone sax , ecc ... I think he is a too much super-skilled player , to made comparation with him..!!

And he's using different mouthpieces on different instruments. It's not Wheel of Random Rims; I'm sure he has preferences on each...

[norbie2018]

I'm not saying anyone should continue to play a mouthpiece they are not comfortable with, I'm just saying there are lots of other things to consider such as to find an effective technique. In some case like in my case it was perhaps the right thing to go back to the Benge 12C to work at the issues but it might also have been the right thing to stay on any of those mouthpieces if I just kept it and concentrated on improving my playing technique. I will never know, but I choose my path because I felt the problems were more obvious on that small mouthpiece.

/Tom

Yes, mechanics have to be right, or at least in the right direction, before an individual's mp choice makes a difference to the individual. Before they can hear and feel the difference. However, a good teacher can listen to and observe a student and direct him/her to a set of mp specs that will aid in that individual's mechanics development. IOW, they become more efficient at development because they have the right equipment.

[harrisonreed]

I don’t think shoe size is a useful analogy.

Sorry, but Michael Jordan wouldn't have been dunk slamming in size 8's Vans. He might have done so in size 15 Vans, but he wouldn't have liked it. He needed his own shoe.

Charlie Vernon probably wouldn't be laying it out in the CSO with an 11C. Gear matters, and it needs to fit.

You can think of a mouthpiece like a shoe. It's a useful analogy to me, anyways. The cup and shank is the shoe type, the rim is the size. It's cool to wear the wrong size shoe and deal with it too.

[Bach5G]

I don’t think shoe size is a useful analogy.

Sorry, but Michael Jordan wouldn't have been dunk slamming in size 8's Vans. He might have done so in size 15 Vans, but he wouldn't have liked it. He needed his own shoe.

Charlie Vernon probably wouldn't be laying it out in the CSO with an 11C. Gear matters, and it needs to fit.

You can think of a mouthpiece like a shoe. It's a useful analogy to me, anyways. The cup and shank is the shoe type, the rim is the size. It's cool to wear the wrong size shoe and deal with it too.

Charlie V wouldn’t use an 11C on a bass trombone. He might use one on a 2B. I also expect CV has played different mpcs from time to time. Has he ever not sounded like CV?

Michael Jordan would wear a properly fitting shoe. Do you really think he wouldn’t have been one of the greatest of all time in a different pair of shoes? Maybe he would have scored even more in Adidas?

[harrisonreed]

Sorry, but Michael Jordan wouldn't have been dunk slamming in size 8's Vans. He might have done so in size 15 Vans, but he wouldn't have liked it. He needed his own shoe.

Charlie Vernon probably wouldn't be laying it out in the CSO with an 11C. Gear matters, and it needs to fit.

You can think of a mouthpiece like a shoe. It's a useful analogy to me, anyways. The cup and shank is the shoe type, the rim is the size. It's cool to wear the wrong size shoe and deal with it too.

Charlie V wouldn’t use an 11C on a bass trombone.

Michael Jordan would wear a properly fitting shoe.

What’s your point?

That's my point exactly. There is advice on this thread here saying, oh just practice and you'll adapt. The 5G or whatever standard mouthpiece is not the best fit for everyone and is limiting. I used to think that I could just practice through on a standard size and it would get better. It got to where my jaw was locking up and I couldn't play.

Switching up to a "non-standard" mouthpiece with a wider rim diameter almost instantly solved that issue, and I could play both higher and lower than before. It was almost like I had just been wearing the wrong shoe size my whole life. It's just an analogy. It's obviously not exactly what is happening with mouthpieces. I don't like when teachers use baseball analogies, in any discipline so I get it. At least everyone has worn a shoe before.

Analogies have to fit the student. One student may understand, "oh, maybe you should try XYZ size rim, to help your chops function better inside the cup. That's like wearing a shoe that lets your feet spread out."

Another student may respond better to "oh, maybe you should try XYZ size rim, to help your chops function better inside the cup. Playing on that current piece is like when Babe Ruth smashed a homer even though his heart was clogged and his intestines full of hotdogs. He was just muscling through"

[norbie2018]

Michael Jordan would wear a properly fitting shoe. Do you really think he wouldn’t have been one of the greatest of all time in a different pair of shoes? Maybe he would have scored even more in Adidas?

He was talking about the size of the shoe, not the brand; surely you can see that. And you proved the point being made by affirming he would wear properly fitting shoes.

[timothy42b]

I suspect we are all somewhere on at least two continuums:

1. We'll prefer a mouthpiece somewhere on the tiny to huge continuum.

2. We are somewhere on the highly sensitive - can't play a mouthpiece .0001 inches off to insensitive - what, the mouthpiece makes a difference? continuum.

The way to test this, I think, might be to rub in a bunch of Orajel until our lips are numb and we can't feel any difference, then try all the mouthpieces we can.

PS don't really do this.

[timothy42b]

He was talking about the size of the shoe, not the brand; surely you can see that. And you proved the point being made by affirming he would wear properly fitting shoes.

I went roller skating with someone once who took, actual count by my watch, 26 minutes to get a pair of rental skates laced to exactly the right tension. She was not a pro skater, just somewhere on the spectrum, something we hadn't really heard about in those days. Close enough did not exist, there was only right or panic.

[Doug Elliott]

A few times I have arrived at a gig without my horn... Had to borrow or buy something at the last minute, whatever was available nowhere near the size I normally play. I have always gotten through the gig and sounded relatively like myself. However I know that if I had to play something like a 12C day after day, I would fall apart after a few days or weeks - rather than "adjusting to it.". A small mouthpiece has serious limitations for me.

You can learn something from each piece of equipment you try, mouthpiece or horn. Sometimes you learn how it helps you to function better, sometimes it's how to deal with it, or sometimes it's to never try that again.

[imsevimse]

Hello Tom .

Well , I think that to give a look to James Morrison to have a proof of something , is a bit strange idea.. He play trumpet , trombone , alto/tenor/baritone sax , ecc ... I think he is a too much super-skilled player , to made comparation with him..!!

Of course , one can play with all the existing size of mpcs , but in the long term , if you play daily as a professional musician , you will choose the piece/pieces that work at best . And these mpcs will be chosen according to your personal characteristic .

Regards
Giancarlo

It is an example of someone who is very flexible with mouthpieces and at the same time he is a proof of doing it at the highest level. I also know other musicians who can play all brass at a fair level but they are not that known. I know musicians who change mouthpieces depending on what they are going to do, most of them are trumpet players who change mouthpiece for lead and for solo or classical. A lot switch mouthpiece if they switch to another size of horn, most keep the size of the rim to what they are used to play, but not all. Most of the musicians I know are open and flexible enough to borrow a mouthpiece from me and try it in a big band right away and stll be able to sound good, they might not like the mouthpiece, but it is not something that can be heard sitting next to them. Most do not like a mouthpiece if the rim is (a lot) smaller compared to the one they are used to, but if it is just a minor difference they might like it.
I do not know any tromboneplayers over here besides me who choose to vary their mouthpiece on the same horn to play different types of music, but it might be that I like to play both jazz and classical on my small bore horns and that I then feel I want to get a deeper/fuller sound for the classical rep plus a little broader low register and compared to that another sound for lead trombone in a big band. I think for me the reason to change mouthpiece while on the same horn is the same as why some trumpeters change their mouthpiece for different contexts. At the moment I only switch between two mouthpieces on my small bore horn and they have also different rim sizes.

/Tom

[JacobsianApostle]

I’ve been playing for a few months on a DE XT104 setup. If I picked up a 7C right now I would sound more or less the same. If I had to play a gig on it tonight I would be extremely unhappy but I would be able to make it work and sound like myself in the process.

However if I had to spend the next year playing on that 7C every day I’m certain that by the end of that year I wouldn’t be as good a trombonist as if I had stayed on my current setup. I would probably even regress in certain ways, such as the efficient pivoting I’ve developed which simply doesn’t fly on a 7 sized rim.

I think I’ve progressed more in the last few months on my DE setup with a 3G sized rim than I did in the previous year on something much smaller, and I’ve advanced much more in other things like actually playing music since there is now a much shorter and straighter path to feeling fundamentally sound and warmed up every day.

Sometimes the serendipity is in your favor and the mouthpiece you’re handed as a student is just the ticket and you play it your whole life. I know people like that, some of whom got it into my head as a student that the mouthpiece doesn’t matter since “…I’ve been playing the same 6 1/2 since high school” but of course they were wrong.

You can still be a good musician and you can still develop a good sound and good range on equipment which doesn’t fit you if you practice intelligently and consistently, but eventually you’re going to start running into walls, and no amount of cleverness or discipline will suffice to get you over if your equipment doesn’t allow for the proper development of good habits.

[JeffBone44]

I believe that finding the right size mouthpiece has helped me become a better player. It's very clear to me now that on tenor, small bore or large bore, I need a 2G-3G size rim. On smaller rims such as a 4G or 5G, my sound is thin and a little bit "pinched", while on the larger rim my sound is more open and resonant. Articulations are better too. I use a DE XT104/C+ on small bore, XT104/D+ or E on medium bore, XT105/G+ on large bore.

On the bass trombone the 1 1/4G size seems to be the ticket. After trying several different mouthpieces over the past year, I've settled on a DE XB112/L8.

If I had to play on what is considered the "normal" sizes, like 7C for small bore and 5G for large bore, I would struggle mightily. My low range would be unreliable and a lot of lower notes wouldn't speak, and I would feel very restricted.

[Macbone1]

A mouthpiece change may be necessary to progress and/or to avoid bad habit traps. I had a Stork piece for a short while (expensive) with their trademark "soft" or sloped inner bite to the rim. Without that rim support my range was limited and playing anything was very tiring. I got rid of it fast once I figured that out.

My face and jaw anatomy is such that too much "work" for the embouchure leads to embouchure "collapse". There's still a buzz, but most of the control is gone and it just feels awful. Anyone who is afflicted like that or in related ways needs to change their mouthpiece pronto.

[Danitrb]

It is normal to read so many different opinions on this topic. This is because there is no absolute rule, there are many opinions on doubling and all can be right. You have to try the different ways and figure out what works for you.

For this specific question I believe a wrong mouthpiece can stop or slow down improvements on the instrument. I grew up with a mpc wich actually I wouldn't play it at all.

[JeffBone44]

It is normal to read so many different opinions on this topic. This is because there is no absolute rule, there are many opinions on doubling and all can be right. You have to try the different ways and figure out what works for you.

For this specific question I believe a wrong mouthpiece can stop or slow down improvements on the instrument. I grew up with a mpc wich actually I wouldn't play it at all.

When I was in community band there were a couple of trombonists in my section who were playing on small bore horns and their sounds were incredibly thin and pinched. I asked them what they were playing and they were both on a 12c. For one of them I gave him an old Bach 5 that I wasn't using anymore. His sound and playing instantly improved. The other one bought a 6 1/2AL and that was much better too.

I take equipment for granted sometimes, because I know so much about it. But in my experience I have encountered many trombonists who know absolutely nothing about it. They're playing the absolute wrong equipment for them and they don't even realize it. I just talked to someone else last week and he didn't even know that there were other mouthpieces besides a 7c.

[timothy42b]

For this specific question I believe a wrong mouthpiece can stop or slow down improvements on the instrument.

I suspect that frequent mouthpiece changes before one's playing is well settled may also stop or slow down improvements. Maybe even reverse them.

[Cmillar]

What do I know?

Well, now, quite a lot....more than I've know for most of my career.

I'm like many trombone players who've been playing professionally for many years. We 'make it work' and have been able to perform to high playing standards, but inwardly we know that 'something isn't quite right' and we can do better.

So, we try a million mouthpieces over many years. Sometimes we find one and go 'Nirvana!'..'This is the one!'....and then a few weeks later we run into the same doubts despite continuing to work and practice, etc.

So we try some more mouthpieces with the same end results. Frustration.

My advice to all younger players and serious students:

You are very lucky to live in an era now in which there is so much knowledge and so many fantastic choices in finding a proper mouthpiece 'FOR YOU'.

We're all different, and many of us have just played on whatever has been 'customary' or available and have been trying to overcome various playing obstacles for years, in all genres of music.

To make a long story short, get in touch with someone like Doug Elliott if you're serious about playing and improving and want to avoid a lot of future frustrations.

Doug's knowledge is encyclopedic, he's a monster trombone player himself, and has dealt with trombone players from all walks of musical life. He's saved careers, and for many of us who have benefited from his expertise, are playing better than ever and still improving in our trombone playing.

Smarter practice? Sure....but it's hard to 'practice smarter' if you're playing on a mouthpiece that is just not built for your face and your needs.

Very simple.

These are amazing times for trombone players.

Mouthpiece choices, horn choices, customization choices....wow.....stuff that many of us couldn't dream of just 30 or 40 years ago.

The smart move? Contact someone like Doug Elliott or one of his compadres like 'wikitone' who can steer you in the best direction....FOR YOU!

As Nike say, 'Just do it'.
(hey...on that note...being a lifelong runner who's had calf injuries along the way that have been a frustrating as having the wrong mouthpiece....getting the proper shoes to fit you and your body's mechanics (ie: supination, over pronation, etc.) is fundamental to your proper running enjoyment.)

So, getting the proper mouthpiece is the same kind of thing.

Do it!

[Danitrb]

It is normal to read so many different opinions on this topic. This is because there is no absolute rule, there are many opinions on doubling and all can be right. You have to try the different ways and figure out what works for you.

For this specific question I believe a wrong mouthpiece can stop or slow down improvements on the instrument. I grew up with a mpc wich actually I wouldn't play it at all.

When I was in community band there were a couple of trombonists in my section who were playing on small bore horns and their sounds were incredibly thin and pinched. I asked them what they were playing and they were both on a 12c. For one of them I gave him an old Bach 5 that I wasn't using anymore. His sound and playing instantly improved. The other one bought a 6 1/2AL and that was much better too.

I take equipment for granted sometimes, because I know so much about it. But in my experience I have encountered many trombonists who know absolutely nothing about it. They're playing the absolute wrong equipment for them and they don't even realize it. I just talked to someone else last week and he didn't even know that there were other mouthpieces besides a 7c.

I'm agree. As I said, I grew up with a wrong mpc, I made improvements anyway but once I changed to another mpc, things started work better immediately and make trombone life much easier.

[Danitrb]

For this specific question I believe a wrong mouthpiece can stop or slow down improvements on the instrument.

I suspect that frequent mouthpiece changes before one's playing is well settled may also stop or slow down improvements. Maybe even reverse them.

Agree with you. Often changes are not good, you can't create habitude and embrouchure memory this way, but if you play wrong mouthpiece for many years could be a problem. We should be honest and tell ourselves when it is time to practice more, and when it is time for change equipment. Surely a "bad day" can't be relate to equipment, but if I have bad feeling with mpc for days, weeks , months constantly, in this case maybe it is good looking for change.

[erbarnes]

A mouthpiece change might not help, but it may! I once had a trumpet colleague describe it as follows: “the way you sound is 90% hard work and effort and 10% equipment, but when you are putting in the work, the 10% can have a HUGE impact.” I think I have really only evaluated mouthpieces a few times since picking up the trombone and it was always after years of use. Each time I switched, it was always for a sound purpose. Something about my sounds want quite right and each switch got me closer to my ideal sound concept. But to play devil’s advocate to my own argument, I have played Euphonium for longer than trombone and I have never felt the need to try different mouthpieces because I was happy with my sound.

[harrisonreed]

I don’t think shoe size is a useful analogy.

1:27 . Couldn't help it!

[timothy42b]

Of course, the traditional pairings often have particular characteristics and associated performance practices... "People who could go bigger playing an 11C and doing that sotto voce fakeout thing from the third partial down (or shifting for extra volume)" is quite a recognizable sound, and no one is stopping them. (Of course, you can still do that effect on a larger rim if you want, but it's less... inevitable.)

The snip and the bold is mine.

I just noticed this and it reminded me of a struggle I've had in the past, might be related.

Can you elaborate on that?

[Olofson]

I meet players who can play beautiful on any mouthpiece. I also know players who constantly look for better mothpiece, but don´t really know what to look for. For many player smart practise would be better then a new mouthpiece.

[Bach5G]

(1) I meet players who can play beautiful on any mouthpiece. (2) I also know players who constantly look for better mouthpiece, but don’t really know what to look for. (3) For many players smart practise would be better than a new mouthpiece.

I think all 3 statements are true and maybe describe a lot of us.

[ithinknot]

Of course, the traditional pairings often have particular characteristics and associated performance practices... "People who could go bigger playing an 11C and doing that sotto voce fakeout thing from the third partial down (or shifting for extra volume)" is quite a recognizable sound, and no one is stopping them. (Of course, you can still do that effect on a larger rim if you want, but it's less... inevitable.)

The snip and the bold is mine. [...] Can you elaborate on that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkO6mTKOZQQ