Yamaha 697ZPB (Black Phoenix)

[Mv2541]

I thought I would share a recent acquisition of mine that I think is super cool- a nearly flawless condition 697ZBP!

I got it from a music store that supposedly had it sitting in a closet forever- the accessory papers and oils are still in the original plastic. Since they only did a run of 50 for the US market, this one is certainly among (if not) the best condition examples. I’m not even quite sure what to do with it. Do I use it as if it was just a normal horn that will inevitably see damage over time? Do I keep it in the case for another X years and reevaluate then?

If it’s not obvious, it plays just like every other 697 I’ve tried. It works for me infinitely better than a 2B, but I have to be conscious of it’s size coming from .525/.547 horns. I don’t love the sound in the same way I do a Bach, but it would make a perfect horn for rock/pop/ska gigs where I’m on a mic all night. Ironically those are the gigs where it would be most likely to see dings (and be filled with food/potent potables). If I decide to actually gig on it I’ll probably have to find a Monette 11 and have the rim threaded.

Anyway- here’s some pictures. I’m no photographer so these phone shots will have to do.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... O4y5JcIknW

[Digidog]

That's a real nice horn! Congrats to a sweet find! What did you snag it for?

Regarding what to do with it, I'd say: Use it. It's a great pop/salsa/funk-fusion horn that can take some pushing and remain coherent. If you don't want to play it, sell it on. You'd most likely make a profit. Heck; I may be interested if you decide to sell.

Anyways: Congrats to a nice find!

[Mv2541]

Thanks Daniel! I paid a little more than they sold for originally but I’m really not sure what they’re worth since I haven’t seen one listed in some time (and definitely not in this condition). If you are serious about wanting it shoot me an email; I could always buy a Rath or vintage Bach to fit this role.

[Matt K]

I wouldn't personally hold it as an investment vehicle, but I also wouldn't take it into situations where it is more likely to sustain damage. Black lacquer is probably going to accentuate any damage, and I suspect most techs aren't likely to be able to repair + lacquer black lacquer.

[Mv2541]

That’s a good point Matt. It’s a tough choice; I will feel bad getting the inevitable dings and dents using it for the types of gigs I’d want the horn for, but I agree it’s not an investment as much as it is something cool to look at and a conversation starter. The question is if I’m gonna commit to holding it for a long time and being the one to put miles on it.

[bassclef]

The question is if I’m gonna commit to holding it for a long time and being the one to put miles on it.

Why not both?

I have had the same internal struggle which you describe. Admittedly, I have never possessed a horn which was made to be a "collector's item".

I think it may apply here so I will share a mantra which I see getting tossed around frequently in a lot of the golf forums/communities when someone is worried about scratching up their clubs by actually playing golf with them:

They're tools, not jewels.

Congrats on the find, I remember when those were released.

[Mv2541]

Thanks Bassclef- I take that approach with my car (which I think will be a future collectible), but I bought one with some miles on it already so I didn’t have to feel bad about beating up a pristine example. I very well might commit to the same thing, and we can see how she holds up to being used like she was made to.

[walldaja]

Beautiful horn! Enjoy.

[Matt K]

To be honest, if I had one of those I'd 100% keep it and 100% play it. The 6xx series Yamahas are pretty nice. I went a slightly different direction because I was able to get a King 607F and a few customizations to get a 500/525 w/ a Getzen bell for less than the price of a new 6xx series Yamaha (or other new condition horn). 607F just made the most sense for me, but the Black Phoenix is totally sweet and I would have definitely been okay with settling on it. However, I would also get compatible non Phoenix parts (not necessarily another 697, I believe all the small bore Yamaha parts have the same general length and slide tenon/slide receiver) and then mix it up when I wanted to have something that was a little more "gigmeister" in places where I thought it might get damaged, but play similarly enough that it wouldn't throw me off. In some cases, those parts might even be preferrable. E.g. assuming a YSL354 bell section is compatible, it might even be preferred to the slightly smaller bell in some circumstances, both sonically and "risk of being damaged" wise.

[hyperbolica]

If you have another horn you like more, play the other horn, especially since there doesn't seem to be anything special about the way the 697 plays. You can get a great sounding NY Bach 6 cheap (and plentiful) and play that in any situation without fear of damaging something irreplaceable.

[DaveAshley]

I can confirm that a 697Z slide will fit on a 354 bell.

[Mv2541]

If you have another horn you like more, play the other horn, especially since there doesn't seem to be anything special about the way the 697 plays. You can get a great sounding NY Bach 6 cheap (and plentiful) and play that in any situation without fear of damaging something irreplaceable.

This is true, but on a mic nobody would be able to tell the difference between horns- even if I like the Bach sound better.

Also re getting a 354 bell- in that case why wouldn’t I just get a whole 354 and play that instead? Kinda defeats the purpose of having the cool horn then imho. Why have it if I’m not gonna use it?

I just bought one of my old mouthpieces back in the hopes that it fits this horn. If I like the combo I think I’m gonna say eff it and commit to being the person who takes this horn down from demo to well used.

[calgarytrainnut]

Also re getting a 354 bell- in that case why wouldn’t I just get a whole 354 and play that instead? Kinda defeats the purpose of having the cool horn then imho. Why have it if I’m not gonna use it?

I just bought one of my old mouthpieces back in the hopes that it fits this horn. If I like the combo I think I’m gonna say eff it and commit to being the person who takes this horn down from demo to well used.

I think you've answered your dilemma. (I'd play it and be the cool dude on the gig...)

[Matt K]

Guess it depends on what kinds of gigs you do, you mentioned being worried about it being damaged earlier, in which case that's why I'd do that! If you aren't worried about prospective damage, it's definitely redundant.

[Mv2541]

I’ll check in when I get this Warburton (9D/T6*) back; I feel like it will help sway my decision.

[Digidog]

Thanks Daniel! I paid a little more than they sold for originally but I’m really not sure what they’re worth since I haven’t seen one listed in some time (and definitely not in this condition). If you are serious about wanting it shoot me an email; I could always buy a Rath or vintage Bach to fit this role.

Ponder your options with that horn first! If I were you, and had the needs for it, I'd play it - a lot!

I don't recall when they came out (2009-2010?), but I played one briefly some ten or twelwe years ago and found it to be a great, but at the time expensive horn. Noticeably different from my then main player, a 697 without the "z", but really good in its own way.

As I said, I may be interested and of course I'll get in touch when I know your intents with, and the prospects for, your acquisition, but give yourself a good taste of playing a spectacular and unique horn in the proper musical and performing contexts (maybe at a tux combo or ditto big band lead gig). Chances are high that you'll really like it!

Best wishes!

[JKno]

AMAZING horn! I'd play, but I do not "collect" anything.

[Bach42t]

I had two of these purchased together from Chuck Levins Music in Maryland in 2009. The way it was explained to me by the store rep, Yamaha sold packages (the black trumpet, trombone, and sax) together. So they would have to buy three instruments effectively so I could get the two trombones.

I sold one to an attorney who doubled as a big band trombone player in South FL in 2010 for retail price at the time. It was new in the Yamaha shipping box, inside its case and I never blew it. The box had printed “YSL-697Z” and the BP was written with a black sharpie.

The second one I still have in my originally shipping box, never been played, and pristine. It is truly a collector piece.

[Trombarnett]

If you're open to selling it, I am open to buying it. This is the perfect instrument to use for teaching since it really pops! My first pro horn was a 697-Z and I've always regretted selling it. I had some work done on it by a tech in the city when I was at Conservatory and he really messed up the slide. In the end, I traded it for a Conn 6H, which I really enjoyed playing but it didn't have the same feel. Since then I've become a Bach supporting artist and currently play a Bach 12 previously owned by Carl Fontana, BUT this horn woul dbe the perfect addition to my stable to use for teaching and garner students' attention.

Let me know if you're interested! I believe I know where you bought this from too; (brassark?)

[Trombarnett]

I had two of these purchased together from Chuck Levins Music in Maryland in 2009. The way it was explained to me by the store rep, Yamaha sold packages (the black trumpet, trombone, and sax) together. So they would have to buy three instruments effectively so I could get the two trombones.

I sold one to an attorney who doubled as a big band trombone player in South FL in 2010 for retail price at the time. It was new in the Yamaha shipping box, inside its case and I never blew it. The box had printed “YSL-697Z” and the BP was written with a black sharpie.

The second one I still have in my originally shipping box, never been played, and pristine. It is truly a collector piece.

any chance you would like to sell it?

[Aznguyy]

In case anyone is interested.

https://brassark.com/sale_horns/yamaha- ... -trombone/

[Trombarnett]

Sold already!

[Bach42t]

I had two of these purchased together from Chuck Levins Music in Maryland in 2009. The way it was explained to me by the store rep, Yamaha sold packages (the black trumpet, trombone, and sax) together. So they would have to buy three instruments effectively so I could get the two trombones.

I sold one to an attorney who doubled as a big band trombone player in South FL in 2010 for retail price at the time. It was new in the Yamaha shipping box, inside its case and I never blew it. The box had printed “YSL-697Z” and the BP was written with a black sharpie.

The second one I still have in my originally shipping box, never been played, and pristine. It is truly a collector piece.

any chance you would like to sell it?

Sorry for the really late reply, but I'm gonna keep the Black Phoenix.