Crazy hybrid mouthpieces

[LIBrassCo]

Lately I've been doing a fair amount of design work on some more extreme hybrid mouthpieces, and it's made me curious how many ppl out there found a gem with some pretty oddball specs?

For example, I have one that's a '2g" rim with a "4g" cup that's pretty outstanding, but to go even more extreme I designed a bass mouthpiece sporting a deep cup, .310" throat, and a "5g" rim, that to my surprise actually plays well!

[BGuttman]

Doug Elliott made a system to do this before we had 3D printers. His cups, rims, and shanks let you make all kinds of odd combinations.

There apparently are some folks who need wide but shallow mouthpieces. Others like narrow and deep mouthpieces.

There were Parduba mouthpieces with the double cup. Never figured out what it did, but I had a friend in college who loved his. Doug doesn't make those.

Somebody made a trombone sized Helleberg style mouthpiece. I think that's where bass trombone mouthpieces should go. We don't need "toilet bowls", but a deep cup would enhance lower register.

If you want to see crazy, Trent Hamilton made a couple of really odd ones using the magic of 3D printing. I don't think any of them really worked out better, though.

[asmith]

Doug Elliott made a system to do this before we had 3D printers. His cups, rims, and shanks let you make all kinds of odd combinations.

I don’t understand why this is a consistent fall back answer for this forum. There are other mouthpiece makers innovating with their own products that are valid.
Doug makes great mouthpieces and so does Jeff, but they both have very different approaches. I think it’s interesting that a craftsperson that isn’t using a screw rim is trying it. I personally don’t enjoy the feel of Doug’s rims which puts me off his mouthpieces. I’ve really enjoyed playing on Jeff’s mouthpieces because of his rim profile and unique cup design.

Somebody made a trombone sized Helleberg style mouthpiece. I think that's where bass trombone mouthpieces should go. We don't need "toilet bowls", but a deep cup would enhance lower register.

This comes down to “whatever works for you and your chops is valid.” If funnel-like mouthpieces were the answer bass trombone mouthpieces would be more popular. I think that the approach to the instrument and the modern aesthetic demand a deeper mouthpiece.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Back in the 1990’s I ordered some extreme oddball mouthpieces from Schilke. I wanted one particular mouthpiece for my Elkhart Conn tenor shank baritones (I-model euphoniums). The mouthpiece was the equivalent of a Wick 1AL (heavy top) with a tenor shank. The Wick 1AL is what I have used on my large shank euphoniums for many years. I believe the Wick 1AL is somewhere between a 2G and a 1.5G in the Bach system. If you can imagine it, the mouthpiece looked rather strange because the top looked enormous on the tenor shank.

The experiment had both success and failure. The Conn .562 bore euphoniums got a gorgeous sound, but had extreme pitch/intonation issues. The biggest problem was that all of the Conns played about 20 cents flat with the tuning slide all the way in. I abandoned that experiment because I could not bring myself to cutting the tuning slides on my Conn euphs.

I think the one thing that you cannot alter too much is the depth of the cup. If you are playing on a .525 bore trombone and combine a Bach 6.5 rim with Bach 1.5 depth cup, you are going to end up with a dull sounding horn that plays a microtone lower than B-flat. Likewise on a bass trombone, if you combine a Bach 1.5 rim with a cup from a 6.5, the horn will sound rather bright and be extremely sharp.

I think every trombone size has a “window of successful sizes” that make the horn play favorably. The window is different for every player. The sizes you mentioned don’t sound too crazy. The 2G rim with a 4G cup actually sounds very similar to the specs on my primary .547 bore mouthpiece. The bass trombone mouthpiece with a 5G doesn’t sound as appetizing for me. However, there might be tenor players who occasionally play bass and they might like that the rim feels familiar when they play bass. The question is……..would the mouthpiece provide the flexibility and easy access to the low register?

[LIBrassCo]

Back in the 1990’s I ordered some extreme oddball mouthpieces from Schilke. I wanted one particular mouthpiece for my Elkhart Conn tenor shank baritones (I-model euphoniums). The mouthpiece was the equivalent of a Wick 1AL (heavy top) with a tenor shank. The Wick 1AL is what I have used on my large shank euphoniums for many years. I believe the Wick 1AL is somewhere between a 2G and a 1.5G in the Bach system. If you can imagine it, the mouthpiece looked rather strange because the top looked enormous on the tenor shank.

The experiment had both success and failure. The Conn .562 bore euphoniums got a gorgeous sound, but had extreme pitch/intonation issues. The biggest problem was that all of the Conns played about 20 cents flat with the tuning slide all the way in. I abandoned that experiment because I could not bring myself to cutting the tuning slides on my Conn euphs.

I think the one thing that you cannot alter too much is the depth of the cup. If you are playing on a .525 bore trombone and combine a Bach 6.5 rim with Bach 1.5 depth cup, you are going to end up with a dull sounding horn that plays a microtone lower than B-flat. Likewise on a bass trombone, if you combine a Bach 1.5 rim with a cup from a 6.5, the horn will sound rather bright and be extremely sharp.

I think every trombone size has a “window of successful sizes” that make the horn play favorably. The window is different for every player. The sizes you mentioned don’t sound too crazy. The 2G rim with a 4G cup actually sounds very similar to the specs on my primary .547 bore mouthpiece. The bass trombone mouthpiece with a 5G doesn’t sound as appetizing for me. However, there might be tenor players who occasionally play bass and they might like that the rim feels familiar when they play bass. The question is……..would the mouthpiece provide the flexibility and easy access to the low register?

Oddly enough it has full access and a great sound. I could likely tweak it better, but it's very acceptable as is.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Back in the 1990’s I ordered some extreme oddball mouthpieces from Schilke. I wanted one particular mouthpiece for my Elkhart Conn tenor shank baritones (I-model euphoniums). The mouthpiece was the equivalent of a Wick 1AL (heavy top) with a tenor shank. The Wick 1AL is what I have used on my large shank euphoniums for many years. I believe the Wick 1AL is somewhere between a 2G and a 1.5G in the Bach system. If you can imagine it, the mouthpiece looked rather strange because the top looked enormous on the tenor shank.

The experiment had both success and failure. The Conn .562 bore euphoniums got a gorgeous sound, but had extreme pitch/intonation issues. The biggest problem was that all of the Conns played about 20 cents flat with the tuning slide all the way in. I abandoned that experiment because I could not bring myself to cutting the tuning slides on my Conn euphs.

I think the one thing that you cannot alter too much is the depth of the cup. If you are playing on a .525 bore trombone and combine a Bach 6.5 rim with Bach 1.5 depth cup, you are going to end up with a dull sounding horn that plays a microtone lower than B-flat. Likewise on a bass trombone, if you combine a Bach 1.5 rim with a cup from a 6.5, the horn will sound rather bright and be extremely sharp.

I think every trombone size has a “window of successful sizes” that make the horn play favorably. The window is different for every player. The sizes you mentioned don’t sound too crazy. The 2G rim with a 4G cup actually sounds very similar to the specs on my primary .547 bore mouthpiece. The bass trombone mouthpiece with a 5G doesn’t sound as appetizing for me. However, there might be tenor players who occasionally play bass and they might like that the rim feels familiar when they play bass. The question is……..would the mouthpiece provide the flexibility and easy access to the low register?

Oddly enough it has full access and a great sound. I could likely tweak it better, but it's very acceptable as is.

Then it could be a possible option for a tenor player who occasionally gets the call to play bass.

LOL….not for me though! I need at least a 2g rim for freedom in the low range on tenor. I do realize that I am the exception to the rule.

[LIBrassCo]

Oddly enough it has full access and a great sound. I could likely tweak it better, but it's very acceptable as is.

Then it could be a possible option for a tenor player who occasionally gets the call to play bass.

LOL….not for me though! I need at least a 2g rim for freedom in the low range on tenor. I do realize that I am the exception to the rule.

Lmao, dude I've gotten a lot of takers for the 2g rim/4g cup combo on tenor so I get it.

But ya, I don't think it's asnits as it sounds after playing it myself for a while. That's why I'm super curious to see if anyone else went all bananas with a size combo that extreme and found success.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Then it could be a possible option for a tenor player who occasionally gets the call to play bass.

LOL….not for me though! I need at least a 2g rim for freedom in the low range on tenor. I do realize that I am the exception to the rule.

Lmao, dude I've gotten a lot of takers for the 2g rim/4g cup combo on tenor so I get it.

But ya, I don't think it's asnits as it sounds after playing it myself for a while. That's why I'm super curious to see if anyone else went all bananas with a size combo that extreme and found success.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Oh….I’m sure there are plenty of people who already use something like that or will consider it.