Schilke Mouthpieces

[Trombola2112]

What exactly is the difference between the 50 and 50c4? From what I can tell the rim and throat are different. Are the cup size the same or is the c4 slightly smaller like in the 51 series?

[Kevbach33]

https://www.schilkemusic.com/mouthpiece ... ng-system/

That second number in the designation of the 50C4 is your clue: the rim contour is different, specifically semi flat as compared to the standard Schilke rim shape for the 50. The other variables — cup diameter and volume, and backbore shape — pertaining to the 4 parameters should* be the same.

*Schilke mouthpieces for trombones we're developed one by one, so oftentimes not all specs are the same between numbers. See 51 vs 51D, for instance: different cup diameters despite the same number.

[pjanda1]

I'm baffled by my new (used) small shank 50C4. I have three large shank 51C4s with rim shapes ranging from very sharp and hard to play on for long periods to merely sharper than the standard 51 rim but comfy for those of us who like flat rims.

This 50C4 looks unmodified but is in no way "semi-flat." It is closer to a 6 1/2 AL rim shape than most anything else I have. It is rounder than the rims on not just my 51C4s, but than on my 51s, 51Bs, 52, etc. I have a ton of mouthpieces from a bunch of different makers, and if you lined them all up by rim shape, this would be among the very roundest of inner rim shapes. I know Schilkes vary a lot, but if this is unintentional, it is ridiculous.

I'm curious to know if anybody thinks the 50C4 rim is something like the 51D, where D means something different than on, say, a 52D. (As implicated above, the Schilke nomenclature can vary from model to model, as a 51D has a narrower cup than a 51 or 51C4, and a deeper cup than a 52D. Were it not for the description of a "4" rim, I'd wonder if the 51C4 is the odd one out because it may have been a one-off design for Byron Peebles, AFAIK.) Or, is a 50C4 usually like a smaller 51C4 (as I had hoped), but mine just happens to be one that was very aggressively buffed or cut on a weird day?

Paul

[Posaunus]

Paul,

Unfortunately Schilke's mouthpiece nomenclature is not very systematic or consistent (as is apparently the case for their manufacturing variability). I know that the 51C4 is supposed to be sort of a 51, but it has a (I think) a slightly smaller, shallower cup, a supposedly smaller throat (but not consistently so), and a flatter ("semi-flat" #4) rim. This was said to be the mouthpiece that Byron Peebles played as principal trombone of the Los Angeles Philharmonic. But I have a mouthpiece from Byron's personal collection that is gold-plated with a "Remington" taper shank and is stamped 51C4d (for custom "d" backbore) - yet another animal. And it is well-known that the 51B and 51D are wildly different from the 51. It's a big mistake to confuse Schilke's model numbers with either a particular size or design.