Water in a Hagmann offline valve section

[meine]

Hello,

I got a horn modificated with some gen II Hagmann valves in offline position, but I always have a lot of water gurgling in the valve tubing. How can come this and what can be a solution? I have the same valve configuration on my Thein, but hardly never have the same problem with it.

[tbonesullivan]

Do you have any pictures? I'm assuming this is a bass trombone?

[meine]

Yes, it‘s a basstrombone.

[Burgerbob]

I'd be surprised if you didn't have problems on your Thein. Lots of places for water to get caught!

[Matt K]

I had this issue with a Tru-bore valve. It annoyed me so much I almost put a saturn water key on it. But I ultimately found out rotors work better for me anyway both ergonomically and from a sound prospective. If you do that, you have to be careful to make sure the case you put it in doesn't stress the solder point or else you end up with a giant hole when you show up for the gig though. And it can also potentially leak on your shoulder which is a little gross. Otherwise, the only way to get it out is to pull the tuning slide and dump it like horn players do.

[tbonesullivan]

Oh wow. I'm unfortunately not that familiar with how Hagmann valves drain water out. Can water get stuck inside the valve under the bottom valve cap?

Is the horn you posted a picture of the Thein, or the horn you had modified? I would assume that maybe the wrap on the Thein has been really designed to allow the water to drain out, which definitely is more difficult on a dependent valve setup depending on the type of valves used.

[Matt K]

Condensation can possibly get in behind the valve cap but the tolerances aren't so tight that it wouldn't drain and certainly wouldn't cause a gurgling sound. But a wrap like that can definitely get condensation trapped in it because there's nowhere for the fluid to go.

If the horn is in playing position, it would possibly flow but because of the way Hagmann valves exit ports are... it isn't obvious to me that it would actually drain or just sort of hang out in the valve and then flow back if you put the horn down or not.

[meine]

I actually have some water in the Thein Hagmanns too, but way less than in the modificated Conn posted here. I guess I found the problem. The Thein has a broad handslide, the Conn a narrow one. I held the Conn too horizontally, so all the water from the handslide run in the valves and was caught there. And I idiot was wondering why there is no spit in the handslide when I wanted to release it

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Ha ha! Sounds like the concerns I had from marching band students when I was teaching marching band shows. The kids always wondered why they never had to empty their water keys on most of the brass instruments for much of the marching season. Since most of the bell-front instruments were held at a 10 degree upward angle (towards the press box), the condensation accumulation never made it around the first bend.

Of course, their question always made me giggle……they never seemed to notice or care that the condensation was coming back through the mouthpiece and constantly dripping off their chins!

Always hated teaching that 10 degrees up horn angle thing because of the tension it causes in the neck. I guess it was one of the “necessary evils” of being part of a competitive marching band circuit.

To the OP…..if water is draining from your slide into your valves on a regular basis, the lifespan of your rotor OIL will be much shorter. Apply oil regularly and you might need a chem clean/ultrasonic clean more often.