Is it possible to remove built-in lead pipe from Mount Vernon slide?

[BrianJohnston]

Title says most of it.

I would like to replace the lead pipe of a mt vernon 547 slide, but my tech says it's nearly impossible on a horn that old. Is it possible without having to remove the entire top inner slide tube?

[hornbuilder]

Anything is "possible", but (and there most certainly is a "but"!) You won't know until you start. A horn that old has developed a decent "crust" between the inner tube and the leadpipe. This crust may even be to the point of corrosion, ie, metal that used to be there is gone, and the part may be fragile. Having the correct tools can make pulling the pipe much easier, but even with the correct tools and techniques, there is no guarantee that the pipe, or inner slide tube, will survive. The chances of getting such an old pipe out, without also unsoldering the inner tube, are slim. Worst case scenario, be prepared to replace both the pipe and the inner tube.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I second what Matthew said. The severity of the corrosive material that forms between the outside of the leadpipe and the inside of the inner slide can be very unpredictable.

I had a customer bring in two Bach horns recently…….a Bach 50 from late 80s and Bach 42 from mid 70s. He wanted both to be converted to a removable leadpipe system. The 1970s leadpipe came out very easily. The 1980s looked like a very clean horn, but that darn leadpipe would not move. I ended up putting a brand new inner slide in the instrument and the leadpipe was not salvageable. One would think that the older instrument would have presented more problems, but it was the opposite…..again, very unpredictable.

[Thrawn22]

It's always a crap shoot. Last time i had a pipe taken out the tech had to soak the mpc end in penetrating oil.

[Burgerbob]

You can't replace those inners. Modern Bach inner tubes are, to put it bluntly, bad.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

You can't replace those inners. Modern Bach inner tubes are, to put it bluntly, bad.

I have found M/K Drawing’s inner tubes for Bachs to be pretty good. They may be costly, but the consistency and quality of the parts is rather high.

Another thing to consider…….Allied is probably the #1 supply company for instrument replacement parts in the USA. Several years ago, a tech friend of mine had attempted to assemble a few Bach 42 slides with “Bach parts” supplied by Allied. The slides were just not working and he noticed two things about the inner slides…. 1. The gauge of the metal was slightly thinner (on the non-stocking section of the tubes) and 2. The outside diameter of the stockings was about .002 inch larger than the other Bach slides he had in his shop.

After some heated discussions with Allied on the phone, the tech foreperson at Allied admitted to my friend that they had occasionally substituted Getzen inner slides when they could not keep their Bach bins fully stocked.

So Aiden, consider this…….are you absolutely sure those “bluntly, bad” inner slides were actually Bach parts? Do you know if those modern Bach inners came from the Conn/Selmer company? It is a challenge to be sure of such things today.

[Burgerbob]

So Aiden, consider this…….are you absolutely sure those “bluntly, bad” inner slides were actually Bach parts? Do you know if those modern Bach inners came from the Conn/Selmer company? It is a challenge to be sure of such things today.

I'm talking about the new barrel-shaped stockings from Bach from 2014 or so on. They're on all the new slides.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

It sounds like you are referring to factory installed inners, so they would obviously be Bach parts. The newer inners are a bit different, but the stockings don’t bother me. For me, they just don’t feel as solid or rigid as the older ones.

In terms of slide replacement parts, I do recommend M/K Drawing. I have had nothing but good fortune with their products.

[Matt K]

Are the Bach inner slide prices still way out of proportion compared with similar, comparable inners? I had a Bach 50 inner slide replaced about 10 years ago and I seem to recall the inner being about twice the price of a Yamaha and Conn part. It was almost worth it to replace the outer slide too

[brassmedic]

It is very possible, but you have to find someone who is experienced at pulling leadpipes. The biggest risk is that the leadpipe might be deteriorating inside the tube on a horn that old, so when it comes out, it's going to have holes or splits in it. It might take a lot of work, but you can usually get them out if you have patience. As for removing the top slide tube, the assembly might come apart from the heat anyway, so that's often unavoidable. Note that 42 upper tubes are flared out at the top to accommodate the leadpipe, so if you are going to remove the slide tube from the brace socket, you have to swage down the end to get it out of the socket, then expand it again when it is reinstalled.