Need to be able to write/read about personal experience in profile

[imsevimse]

Hi

I've not been as frequent as I used to here and I have noticed this forum has changed a lot. This forum is not at all the same as the old one I started to read 2006. I miss a lot of the respected professionals here who had the authority to keep threads more tidy. The forum was then about sharing but since a lot of knowledge has left the room it is not as interesting. It is now more about selling and buying horns. It needs to be more professionals here who knows how to help keep threads at a higher level.

I think there should be a section in the profile about our playing and experience. We don't know much of the people we discuss and I think ithat is relevant. It could be the difference whether to take part in a discussion or not as well as helping to know where to start when giving an answer.

/Tom

[Matt K]

PS I haven’t had my morning coffee yet so I apologize for typos and anything that comes off as abrasive - that is not my intent with this message.

Is the “about me” not sufficient? I’m not aware of any limits to how much content can be put in that section but if you are having issues I can make another text field to fit your resume.

As far as keeping things at a “high level” I’m not sure what that means. There are some very experienced people posting here, particularly in the last few days. The most active threads at the moment - including your alto threads - are almost exclusively populated by pretty seasoned professionals and manufacturers of instruments. Some of the players are younger than you but that’s inevitably going to happen as time marches on.

If you have any thoughts about additional moderation that can be done m, we’re happy to consider any suggestions.

If you are speaking about pushback in your recent threads I think the issue is you may have came across as, well, I’m not sure the best adjective… but basically not positively. You probably didn’t intend that but there were some statements that could be construed that if you played anything larger than a Bach 39 (which is… essentially everything else) you were having a suboptimal experience if not level of artistry. That’s going to divert pushback and focus the conversation in ways that focus on that rather than keeping things at a “high level” if I’m understanding correctly. So if I were to want to take on the mantle of moderating with the intent of focusing the discussion, I probably would personally say statements such as that are impermissible. But that’s very subjective. And I’m not nearly as good a player as you are - or at least I substantially lack the years behind the slide as you do I’d personally prefer to disagree with you and be convinced otherwise. As frustrating as that might be for you.

At the end of the day, times are changing and there are a lot more weekend warrior types like myself. There are still some really good younger players that are managing to make their way in the world too… but there are inevitably going to be more and more people like myself too. And I don’t think that’s inherently wrong nor do I necessarily think the quality of opinion is going to suffer but the content itself might be different.

If you do have ideas for such content I’d welcome you to post them and perhaps we can involve players who aren’t yet participating. I actually had a thought about something similar last night… need to refine the idea a little first.

[imsevimse]

Thanks Matt for taking this seriously and for your time. No, I was not thinking of my thread about the Bach 39 at all. I was thinking that went well. Opinions can differ and that is okay with me. I know I'm limited in language and can't express myself fluently the way I would like to. English is not my native language. I do know this probably also makes my post not as intended sometimes.
I do have an (English) friend who I once asked to read something I had written since I did not understand the reaction I had got and he laughed and explained what I had written and it was sure not what I had in mind

I'm not an unpleasant person in Swedish and I do not wish to be one in English so I apologize if I'm coming out as rude sometimes.

In this case my reason to post is just as I said. It would be nice to know the background of the people here at the forum. There isn't enough room in the section "about me" to explain deeper and it is not encouraged to sum your cv anywhere as it was on the old forum. I have put some extra about myself in the section where you can list your instruments. I did that because I want people to know who I am or at least who I think that I am. In some threads it would be nice to check other members just to know who they are or who they think they are. It could matter, that's what I said.

And I do miss some of the old pro guys. I just hope we could bring some new pros here to be more regular or bring back the ones that's no longer here. In the old days the pros would chime in and set things right in the end of threads that go all places but this does not happen now, that is what I miss. Threads just ends with no conclusion and in that process sometimes I get tired when my post is just ignored, then I would very much like to know who I'm dealing with.

/Tom

[Matt K]

You know, it's funny, I was actually reading... or maybe listening? To someone who was a British national who was raised and lived in Iceland who was explaining the differences between Icelandic culture and British culture and how it was sometimes difficult to communicate switching between "modes" because... well, I don't remember the exact intricacies but basically you come across as a jerk in one if you aren't sufficiently extra-polite and you come across as being extremely timid in the other if you aren't a little brash. So that absolutely makes sense and the reason I mentioned that... I'm actually honestly totally surprised that with such differences between administrative districts/states there are let alone countries that the community gets along as well as it does. Cultural differences are very hard to handle.

Let me see what I can do about the "About me" section. Theoretically, I can have infinite sections added to the profile. Do you have any suggestions about what you might like to see? I think the "Stable" is nice the way it is because it's kind of flexible. (I remember the old forum had an "Elliott Code" one even. If I were to do that, it would be... very long )

As far as experiences, I'm thinking perhaps:

Ensemble Lists
Recordings/Discography
Studied With (as in like teachers)
Others?

Also obviously open to others' suggestions.

And I do miss some of the old pro guys. I just hope we could bring some new pros here to be more regular or bring back the ones that's no longer here. In the old days the pros would chime in and set things right in the end of threads that go all places but this does not happen now, that is what I miss. Threads just ends with no conclusion and in that process sometimes I get tired when my post is just ignored, then I would very much like to know who I'm dealing with.

Yeah, I can see that. Although, I'm actually really surprised at the number of really good players that are on here. Maybe having that section will make it more obvious. I know of players here through putting some clues together and whatnot that you might not know because they don't put their full name in their username. As mentioned, we're working on some things behind the scenes but I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver... but we have some ideas for some other things that can provide some value. Stay tuned for that...

[BGuttman]

There are also some pros who have accounts but don't post. I know Toby Oft (Boston Symphony principal) has an account and occasionally logs in. Doug Yeo keeps an account and occasionally posts, mostly asking for information on history. Many of the serious pros have their own Web sites (sometimes paid) from which they dispense playing tips. Many have been thrown off by the raucous nature of the discussions here -- some have rather tender egos and don't like to be criticized.

We do have a few experienced players and teachers who have stuck with us. I'm really glad of it since there's no way any of us could know everything about everything. As a mod I find I must spend time trying to stratify the suggestions. A suggestion for a skilled player is probably lost or useless for a beginner, while suggestions for or by beginners are laughable for people who are skilled.

[brassmedic]

Let me just say this, Tom, and you can take it however you like. There was a thread where you described players who use first position all the way in on the slide as "Noobs". This doesn't seem like a language or cultural barrier to me, but in fact an intimate knowledge of slang in the English language, used to denigrate others. I happen to know a lot of extremely high level professional players who play first position all the way in. Different strokes for different folks, but when you start insulting people because they don't do things 100% the way you do, that's when you're gonna get into trouble.

[imsevimse]

As far as experiences, I'm thinking perhaps:

Ensemble Lists
Recordings/Discography
Studied With (as in like teachers)
Others?

Also obviously open to others' suggestions.

That would be a help. I'm thinking basically a CV is answering the questions:
Who I am?
What I want to do?
What I've done in the past?

It would be a help to be able to follow a link to a private page of the person to read more.

Optional links to sound clip to hear the person play could also be valuable.

The problem now sometimes is when I get an answer that I do not get. If I want to find out the purpose of the post I have to search all the prior posts of this person and see if that person is a contributor "sharing", if he/she is here to give information to "help" people or if it is a person who does not. It can even be a pro that is pulling my leg. I wouldn't know but it then helps if I can sum what a person has written in other threads in the past maybe when the person was in a different better mood. Some post is saying "I'm having a bad day" but using other words rather than helping people. I personally do not like that behavior when I see it. A CV could help. Of course a person can make up a CV but to me the accuracy is not what is most important. What's most important is a section where the member can tell about himself. It is as important to know "who he thinks he is" or "who he wants to be". That is whats usable to me.

Let me just say this, Tom, and you can take it however you like. There was a thread where you described players who use first position all the way in on the slide as "Noobs". This doesn't seem like a language or cultural barrier to me, but in fact an intimate knowledge of slang in the English language, used to denigrate others. I happen to know a lot of extremely high level professional players who play first position all the way in. Different strokes for different folks, but when you start insulting people because they don't do things 100% the way you do, that's when you're gonna get into trouble.

Thank you for that. To me "Nybörjare" in Swedish was the word I was searching and now I guess I would have been better understood if I had used the word "beginner" here. Yes, that's what happens when I read threads and start using words (slang) that I do not fully understand. I will stop using that word right away
We can discuss the first position in another thread. But there are reasons to play that Bb out away from the bumpers and it was not something that was taught to me in my first years. It came much later so that's what I meant and it has to do with many things but most important how the instruments are built and also that it provides a possibility to follow intonation on first position in an orchestra when (if) it raises, but of course pros can make anything work. With strong lips it is possible to make notes in tune in many places. I need to be better at expressing my thoughts and not be careless, because I hadn't in mind to insult people. Are you sure I used the word 'Noob' and not newbie? Maybe that also comes out as an insult in that context and is as bad, but I'm not sure, beginner was what I meant.

[imsevimse]

...
Many of the serious pros have their own Web sites (sometimes paid) from which they dispense playing tips. Many have been thrown off by the raucous nature of the discussions here -- some have rather tender egos and don't like to be criticized.

We do have a few experienced players and teachers who have stuck with us. I'm really glad of it since there's no way any of us could know everything about everything. As a mod I find I must spend time trying to stratify the suggestions. A suggestion for a skilled player is probably lost or useless for a beginner, while suggestions for or by beginners are laughable for people who are skilled.

"raucous" was a new word there I had to look up

I appreciate what you do Bruce. I've followed the page for a long time both at the old forum and this new one and from all your post I've read it is easy to see you are here for the good course of sharing and I like that. It's nothing wrong how the page is moderated from other moderators that I can think of. I think moderators do a good job here.

When it comes to language barriers. What Matt told made me think of how important nuances in language really is. Of course you should know the meaning of words and not use words you don't know by heart but even then there are problems I can think of. I've been in situations here in Sweden were words and sentences can be right but language melody is not, so then Swedish can sound offensive. It often happens when I hear migrants speak. It can be even as they speak to each other. Unfortunately many immigrants now lives where not many native Swedes live and when they pick up Swedish language they pick it up from other immigrants. This has been going on for a long time so now there are several generations who learn Swedish this way. This lead to local new dialects evolve in certain sub areas. It is not uncommon that the melody in their way of speaking to a native Swede cames out as offensive and rude, and that is because of lack of important information in the language melody and especially this can go wrong in questions. Questions can come out as rhetoric questios, demanding questions or real offensive and rude questions if not done correctly and they probably don't mean that at all, and just try to get help. There are also ways to put out a question in a sincere pleasant and very polite way, and that's how you should do it. A Swede might even feel threatened by people who use that offensive way of speaking and back off, maybe not answer because they think they will be robbed or something.

/Tom

[HermanGerman]

Maybe better you create a Swedish trombone forum? For serious high class trombonists including a kind of entrance exam..or a video proof of cability.
Please excuse my English but it is better than my Swedish...

[imsevimse]

Maybe better you create a Swedish trombone forum? For serious high class trombonists including a kind of entrance exam..or a video proof of cability.
Please excuse my English but it is better than my Swedish...

No need for that. The point is to "share". That is what I think. I've learned a lot here from people I don't know who have shared links, knowledge of technique, information about books, videos. I think there should be more Europeans here. I think most people here are Americans so I welcome people like yourself to balance that.

As I said as answer to Matt what I would be helped by basically answering the questions:
Who I am?
What I want to do?
What I've done in the past?

And...

It would be a help to be able to follow a link to a private page of the person to read more.

And...

Optional links to sound clip to hear the person play could also be valuable.

I've been a teacher for 13 years and think that the best forum would be a mix of people who are in the process of education together with enthusiasts who ask questions, consume music, buy instruments and/or mouthpieces, sell instruments, build instruments and/or mouthpieces, and are genuinely interested in old instruments, interpretations, music education, teaching in general, musicians and history of music as well as professional players. I see we have it all except the professional players.

The point with this forum is to pass knowledge and to seek and get knowledge, that's what I think. It should not be a place to boost someone's ego. If pros can not handle (dumb) questions then they are not contributing to the page (what I think). The problem now is only that we can not value what we read. It must be based on something and valued. Everything that can sort things out is valuable. That's why I think information about who we are is important. We all know anybody can be anything on the Internet so what that really imeans it gives us a place where we can present "who we think we are" or "who we want to be".

I think I have explained my reason enough now for this thread and I let the moderators decide what they want to do with this.

Thank you for reading this!

Update: I found the "noob"-thing. I searched all my post and I have only used that word in one post and as you can see here the word was not introduced by me. I did answer that and put the noob word in quotes in my answer to the post that originally included that word.
Here it is: https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=83668#p83668
I did not know it was insulting and I think you understand this if you read my post and that it was an answer to someone who used that word. I can also see that brassmedic did not like the way we used that word in that thread. I apologize I thought we were using a word that was the same as "beginner"

/Tom

[BGuttman]

Tom, there will always be people who want to demonstrate their knowledge as a club to whack you over the head with. Some have egos the size of Vladimir Putin's (i.e. very large). And some of these obnoxious people really have a lot of knowledge to share. I guess it's just human nature that some people have to be that way. I find the best defense is to adopt a thick skin and shake it off (although I can fail at this sometimes).

I don't profess to be the greatest trombonist ever; or maybe even a good trombonist. I play fairly well and have fun at it. And I chose not to try to make my living from playing trombone If that doesn't qualify me in your mind, that's fine with me. I just want to share what I know and have learned. My years as a process engineer have made me always want to help where I can.

[imsevimse]

Tom, there will always be people who want to demonstrate their knowledge as a club to whack you over the head with.

I know this and it can be irritating, but if such a pro can argue with logic then they do their job here too. Naturally it would be nice if they can avoid to be rude, but I can see there are people that do not live by that. They are not here to contribute and share, they are here for other reasions, but there are also people who doesn't know but have an appearance as "they know". They aren't here to share either but are also a problem and an even bigger one. They need to be corrected and not allowed to own the discussions because they are not helping anyone. The lesser experienced here in these situations probably dont know at all who to trust and just think the discussion is harsh. They can't know if it is a pro that is right or if it is somebody who just thinks he is right. If I have to choose between those then the ones with knowledge and arguments are the ones I prefer to listen too. It does not need to be the big name but it might need to be a pro, but not always. It needs to be someone experienced.

Some have egos the size of Vladimir Putin's (i.e. very large). And some of these obnoxious people really have a lot of knowledge to share. I guess it's just human nature that some people have to be that way. I find the best defense is to adopt a thick skin and shake it off (although I can fail at this sometimes).

I don't profess to be the greatest trombonist ever; or maybe even a good trombonist. I play fairly well and have fun at it. And I chose not to try to make my living from playing trombone If that doesn't qualify me in your mind, that's fine with me. I just want to share what I know and have learned. My years as a process engineer have made me always want to help where I can.

No, don't get me wrong, Bruce. As I said I appreciate you. I'm not a pro either but I once educated myself whith that in mind and I have been doing some of it, but as many in my situation have learned life gets in the way of things and also not everybody can reach all of their goals . There are many players in Stockholm that are far better players than me that also have aimed at a professional career but not reached their goals. Since I changed career I now think of myself as a semi-pro just because I do still have some professional engagements. I could never make a living as a musician and it hasn't been my intent for at leas 30 years. I accept that. I did work 13 years as a teacher and did a lot of freelancing at that time but then I had to rethink and educated myself to be a computer programmer. I'm working as a computer programmer now full time, that's more than 20 years. Ive provided links in my profile where anybody can hear that I'm no Joseph Alessi nor a Frank Rosolini but those links do reveal I do play at the level of a teacher in trombone that is educated at a music college in Stockholm just as I write in the text. I hang with the pros here that are my friends but I'm outside their circle when it comes to jobs. I don't think we should rank people only on skills on trombone or how successful they say they are as musicians. Anybody can contribute here whatever level they have as trombonists and of course nobody needs a diploma to have opinions about music or playing. When it comes to the information "about yourself" here any information you provide about yourself together with the information you write in threads will help me value and understand. It will help to know where you are coming from. If I feel I'm helped by that then I think others too might be helped by that.

/Tom

[brassmedic]

Update: I found the "noob"-thing. I searched all my post and I have only used that word in one post and as you can see here the word was not introduced by me. I did answer that and put the noob word in quotes in my answer to the post that originally included that word.
Here it is: https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=83668#p83668
I did not know it was insulting and I think you understand this if you read my post and that it was an answer to someone who used that word. I can also see that brassmedic did not like the way we used that word in that thread. I apologize I thought we were using a word that was the same as "beginner"

/Tom

You're missing my point. It wasn't the word so much as the fact that you were in essence saying, "If another player does not play this way, which I think is clearly better, then they must be a beginner". That's patently false. There are lots of great trombone players who do things that I do not agree with, but I would never assume that they are unaccomplished players. They just do things differently, and have their reasons for doing so.

I wasn't seeking to debate slide technique here. It was just something I remembered from a few years ago, so I brought it up. A more diplomatic way to approach something like that would be to explain why you think it is better, without denigrating those who do not agree with you. Surely the same sensibility exists in Sweden, does it not? All I'm saying is, if you find that you are getting replies on the forum that you find undiplomatic, perhaps the first thing you should question is whether YOUR comment was diplomatic, rather than questioning the qualifications of the person who responded. And yes, Harrison was a worse offender, but he isn't the one who is here complaining. And no, I'm not suggesting that I am the most diplomatic person by any means; I am human like the rest of us.

[harrisonreed]

It was me. I'll take the blame. But I'll stand by what I said -- tuning your Bb to a closed first position, with a tuner or with others, is stupid. I don't care how good you are, you are never returning to a closed first position in actual practice, especially not in fast passages. So, those people are simply doing what someone else told them to do, and not considering why they are doing that, which is what a beginner does. Doesn't mean they aren't masters at lipping everything in first, or way better musicians than I'll ever be.

"Just because someone really great does something a certain way doesn't mean it's the best way to do it".

So, cut Tom some slack. I taught him the term, he didn't know. He was influenced by the bad kid in the back of the class. Back to the regularly scheduled programming.

[brassmedic]

It was me. I'll take the blame. But I'll stand by what I said -- tuning your Bb to a closed first position, with a tuner or with others, is stupid. I don't care how good you are, you are never returning to a closed first position in actual practice, especially not in fast passages. So, those people are simply doing what someone else told them to do, and not considering why they are doing that, which is what a beginner does. Doesn't mean they aren't masters at lipping everything in first, or way better musicians than I'll ever be.

"Just because someone really great does something a certain way doesn't mean it's the best way to do it".

So, cut Tom some slack. I taught him the term, he didn't know. Back to the regularly scheduled programming.

Again, not here to debate slide technique right now. Yes, your post in that thread was much more caustic than his, but still he did agree with you. And calling people who disagree with you "stupid" is incendiary and completely unneccessary. But like I said, you aren't the one complaining. If you were, I could make lots of suggestions to you on how you could be more diplomatic. But clearly, being undiplomatic is your choice, and that's fine. I'm giving him plenty of slack. He brought up the matter, so I offered a suggestion to him.

[harrisonreed]

It was me. I'll take the blame. But I'll stand by what I said -- tuning your Bb to a closed first position, with a tuner or with others, is stupid. I don't care how good you are, you are never returning to a closed first position in actual practice, especially not in fast passages. So, those people are simply doing what someone else told them to do, and not considering why they are doing that, which is what a beginner does. Doesn't mean they aren't masters at lipping everything in first, or way better musicians than I'll ever be.

"Just because someone really great does something a certain way doesn't mean it's the best way to do it".

So, cut Tom some slack. I taught him the term, he didn't know. Back to the regularly scheduled programming.

Again, not here to debate slide technique right now. Like I said, you aren't the one complaining. If you were, I could make lots of suggestions to you on how you could be more diplomatic. But clearly, being undiplomatic is your choice, and that's fine. I'm giving him plenty of slack. He brought up the matter, so I offered a suggestion to him.

[Stupid stuff I want to say, unrelated to thread deleted]

Tom has a point, but I don't think that is what this forum is all about. It's very much a common man, weekend warrior forum. Most of the pros are not here, but that may be because this is not exactly a place where they can pontificate uncontested. The old TTF stopped being that too, and they left. Or they are just too busy to waste any time here.

[BGuttman]

In defense of the "closed 1st" people, most school Band Directors insist on tuning the trombone with the slide in closed 1st position. Certainly those of us who want to be able to play vibrato in 1st position realize that this is not optimal, and those of us who are orchestral players need to tune to A, which is NOT in 1st position so we often get used to playing with 1st position out a couple of centimeters. Harrison's idea of 3rd to the bell works on many instruments, but some not since bell position relative to mouthpiece is not standardized.

My big beef with school band directors is the insistence of tuning to F, which is an out of tune partial on most trombones so your closed 1st position is always a bit off.

[harrisonreed]

But for the OP, these things are already possible but not enforced. At the end of the day I don't think it's a good idea to have some sort of accreditation for people to listen to you. This isn't that kind of forum.

[imsevimse]

Okay, I get the point from brassmedic now and it was two years ago. I did not understand at that point.

My problem isn't really about not getting a particular reply. I'm not expecting a cheer. My suggestion is it would be a help to understand answers to post with more background of the person who posts. That was my suggestion. I also said I miss the knowledge and posts of the professional players. I have not complained about being treated bad, I said I got tired sometimes when my post is completely ignored and the reason is I would like to know who I'm dealing with to understand what's going on so I can understand and handle the situation better. Maybe I decide not to post. I don't see this as a complaint. I come from an environment where I assume that if someone disagrees they come with valid arguments and not just get offended especially since I'm not directly adressing or even attacking someone in person.
In another thread an answer I did was completely ignored and that was why I decided to make this suggestions. It is difficult to understand especially if the information I provided is considered to be common knowledge over here, at least for the ones who have studied trombone at the Royal Academy of Music. To know more about the people participating in the discussion could mean I read their post differently and I can decide to cancel what I was about to write. I apologise again if I come out as rude, that is not by intent.

[Wilktone]

I don't see anything wrong with having that extra space available to post background information in our profiles. But if you're interested in seeing it so that you can evaluate how seriously to take someone's ideas I think there may be a couple of problems. First, you'll need to convince everyone to essentially post their resume up there. I would guess that most people wouldn't be inclined to take that time, particularly if you can follow a link to their web site and read their bio there.

Secondly, I personally prefer that my ideas stand on their own merits and try to judge other people's advice similarly. Sure, if you know it's coming from an experienced professional it's probably worth a closer look, but even amateur musicians can have great insights. As the expression goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day. And we all know that some professionals have wacky ideas about playing too.

As far as bemoaning that there are fewer professional here than there were on the TTF, that's probably true. However, I don't think things were as rosy over there as some of us remember. The Trombone Forum originally started under the umbrella of the Online Trombone Journal, sometime around 1998, if I recall correctly. Back then, it was really the only public forum devoted to trombone and so it attracted a huge number of trombonists and other musicians. When the OTJ split the forum off the only real change that happened on the front end was that the URL changed. All members and posts were carried over from one forum to the other and the software that was used stayed the same. So yes, there were probably more professionals with memberships posting, but there were just a lot more members period. The impression I get is that the percentage of professionals to hobbyists (depending on how you want to define a "professional" trombonist) are probably similar to the TTF days, it's just a smaller pool of members.

These days public forums such as Trombone Chat are not as popular as they were in the late 90s and early 2000s. I think that a lot of people get their fix from social media platforms instead. Blogging isn't as popular these days as it was back then too, but I think a lot of professional (and amateur) musicians also get their fix by posting things on their own web site or YouTube channel instead of going to public forums to discuss music.

And we shouldn't forget that even professional trombonists can prefer to post anonymously. Even if their "secret identity" is out, sometimes even professional trombonists can be trolls and be rude online. Folks are folks, and there's probably a similar mix of personalities and online behaviors among professionals that there are among hobbyists. Careful what you wish for.

Lastly, I don't have the statistics I compiled any more, but back in the day when I was still active on the TTF and a moderator/admin, I did look at the number of posts and how often users posted and where. The gist of what I learned was that the equipment forums got the bulk of the musical talk, just like here. The vast majority of the forum's activity (around 90%, if I recall correctly) was in the off-topic forums. All forum activity was driven by a very small minority of the forum's users. Some of those members also participated in the music related topics from time to time, but mostly in the Chit-Chat areas. With social media filling that niche now there's little incentive for those folks to come over here to join TC if their main purpose is to banter in the Bunker thread.

I like Trombone Chat. I like that the admins and moderators are active and work hard to keep this place active and improving. Thanks for all that you folks do!

Dave

[brassmedic]

Secondly, I personally prefer that my ideas stand on their own merits and try to judge other people's advice similarly.

THIS!

I am a professional trombone player. I don't feel the need to post my resume here. If people like what I have to say, then can listen to me. If they don't, they can scroll past. Yes, the forum has become a bit "dead" lately. There were a number of high profile players who frequently posted. There are still a lot of pros here, just not as many world famous ones. A lot of them don't like to brag about their accomplishments. There was a time when that was considered bad form. I think a big problem here is a lot of "my way or the highway" folks who are very dismissive of other points of view. I think that's what drove a lot of the pros away. Scratch that, I KNOW that's what drove a lot of the pros away. That and just outright rudeness, like D.J. Kennedy calling Ralph Sauer a "Schnapps swizzling Nazi", and calling Bob McChesney "Bob McChisler". The internet is The Great Equalizer. The weekend warriors have as loud a voice here as the professional trombone players. I've thought about the idea of having some sort of requirement to participate in a forum. Then I thought, "nah", it's not gonna work. Everyone has to post their resume? Just seems like a bad idea. It's never going to have the intended effect. I can generally tell if someone's post is worthy of my attention by the post itself.

I'm sorry if I offended Tom. Matt had already given an example of Tom's that seemed somewhat dismissive of others' point of view, so that made me think of the example that I mentioned. But I did go back and look at some of his posts, and he doesn't seem to do that a lot. So I guess it's not a huge problem. My only point was, if you are often befuddled by how people are responding to you, it might be a good idea to examine not only what you post, but the tone of your post.

Side note: I said I didn't want to debate it here, but looks like people won't let this go. So as to playing first position further out on the slide, yes there are clear advantages. But not everyone is blessed with above-average arm length, so for many (especially women), it is a choice between playing first position out on the slide, or having a usable 7th position. And no, it does not require any lip bending of the pitch to do so. That's why trombones have tuning slides. And if you play a Bach trombone, for example, there's really only one note that would be all the way in, and that's Bb on top of the bass clef staff. All the other notes in that overtone series sound sharper, so anyone who's not a "noob" would play those notes further out on the slide anyway. As for Bruce's contention that band directors force kids to play first against the bumpers, I've never heard of that, but band directors usually aren't experts in all the instruments - they learn only very basic fundamentals in college, and I'm sure many give all sorts of bad advice to their students simply out of ignorance. There are lots of professional trombone players who play closer to the bumpers so that they have more facility to get to 7th position. So try not to be dismissive of others' point of view, and I think the world will be a nicer place.

[harrisonreed]

Aww Brad, I had deleted my dumb comments out of respect for you not wanting to debate here, you can't just sneak in the last word. You said you weren't here to debate slide technique, but I'm glad you brought the big guns out. I've been waiting for the reason why professionals would eliminate the possibility of tuning Bb in first or being able to quickly move their slide to first position.

"Short arms"

Thank you

(It's a fair point. I'm a gorilla, and hadn't really thought of that as a serious issue for others)

[brassmedic]

Aww Brad, I had deleted my dumb comments out of respect for you not wanting to debate here, you can't just sneak in the last word. You said you weren't here to debate slide technique, but I'm glad you brought the big guns out. I've been waiting for the reason why professionals would eliminate the possibility of tuning Bb in first or being able to quickly move their slide to first position.

"Short arms"

Thank you

(It's a fair point. I'm a gorilla, and hadn't really thought of that as a serious issue for others)

Seems like you're being snide and sarcastic. Exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Whatever. Done talking to you.

[HermanGerman]

Y'all need to practice

Just do it, harrisonreed, or try to find a friend in the real world to talk with. You are a great trombonist...we got it

[harrisonreed]

Y'all need to practice

Just do it, harrisonreed, or try to find a friend in the real world to talk with. You are a great trombonist...we got it

Why are you quoting another thread? That's out of context here. If we're going there, you can quote pretty much anything from anywhere to make someone out to be a bad guy.

[imsevimse]

I still think this a good idea, especially since AI. It could help if admin encurrage we provide a more serious text about our experience.

I would like to know where a person comes from, and to be honest just the fact that a person cares enough and write a serious text tells something. It takes too much time to read posts from new posters to figure who is serious and who is not.

Of course you learn that in time anyway. Trolls reviel themselves sooner or later and people who are inconsistent with their posts are also spotted as fakes sooner or later.
As an example; The ones who are here because of a genuine interest to learn and share are the ones who would gain most of MY intersest. I would be able to read their posts with the background they provide and understand better. Even in this very thread you can see that some feel the need to refer to their experience when they make statements. The profile would be a much better place for such information. The previous forum was also better in this aspect. I guess it was a part of the "climate" on the old forum, maybe it just was more expected.

/Tom

[ghmerrill]