Instrument Innovations - Bach 42

[arich621]

Just curious for those of you who have done conversions with a Bach 42(b) to an open wrap with the Instrument Innovations rotary valve:

1. Any feedback/reviews on how it plays, changed the horn, or valves that you can compare its playing to would be awesome.
2. The valve itself, plus the necessary tubing, doesn't seem all that expensive. Any estimate on how much you can expect a tech to charge for all the labor needed?

Any insight is greatly appreciated if you've done a similar project, thanks!

[dukesboneman]

I had my 42BO Valve swapped out for the Instrument Innovations Rotary valve and LOVE it.
I find that (finally) the "F" side of the horn is just about as open as the open horn.
My low notes pop more and with a fuller sound.
In my opinion, It`s well worth the investment

[Boneaphone]

I had my 42BO fitted with the Instrument Innovations rotary valve in 2020. It was like getting another much better horn. More centered, open sound and feel, better articulations, and smoother transition in and out of valve. You will not regret this modification! My cost with labor/parts was just shy of $600.00.

[arich621]

Awesome to hear, thank you both!

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I think Boneaphone gives a good estimate. If using a lot of parts and the thumb lever components from the original F-attachment section of the Bach 42, the price is about $600 for the conversion. If starting with a straight horn or using new tubing/new thumb lever components, the price can go much higher very quickly.....maybe $850-900 or higher. In other words, recycled parts can be very useful!

I am huge fan of the Olsen Rotary valves. I just had two Bach 42 horns with Olsen valves come through the shop in the last week for cleaning and tune-ups. The first one had a bell section that I built about 5 years ago. The second trombone was built by Eric Edwards, frequent contributor on TromboneChat. By the way.....nice work Eric! When I play-tested the horns, they were both absolutely fantastic.

[Kbiggs]

I had my 42 and my 50 converted to Olsen valves about 2-3 years ago. For the 42 I bought a pre-made section and had my tech (Graham Middleton) adjust as needed to fit the convertible bell. I still have the Thayer valve valve so I can compare. I like the Olsen valve for the reasons mentioned above. The change in feel (compression/resistance) from open horn to valved horn is greater on the Olsen than the Thayer. It’s quite noticeable, but it just takes getting used to. Overall, I prefer the Olsen valve on my tenor.

I changed my 50 from Kanstul CR valves. Significant difference. More centered and easier to center/find the pitch, improved focus and with it projection, and smoother transitions from open to valved horn.

[BoomtownRath]

I had my 42 and my 50 converted to Olsen valves about 2-3 years ago. For the 42 I bought a pre-made section and had my tech (Graham Middleton) adjust as needed to fit the convertible bell. I still have the Thayer valve valve so I can compare. I like the Olsen valve for the reasons mentioned above. The change in feel (compression/resistance) from open horn to valved horn is greater on the Olsen than the Thayer. It’s quite noticeable, but it just takes getting used to. Overall, I prefer the Olsen valve on my tenor.

I changed my 50 from Kanstul CR valves. Significant difference. More centered and easier to center/find the pitch, improved focus and with it projection, and smoother transitions from open to valved horn.

Do you reckon that CR valves are a better choice for bass than Olsens? I have a nice 50B30 but I want to replace the standard valves with something better!

[Burgerbob]

Do you reckon that CR valves are a better choice for bass than Olsens? I have a nice 50B30 but I want to replace the standard valves with something better!

Unless you find some used CR, the Olsens will be cheaper and much easier to find.

[tbonesullivan]

I changed my 50 from Kanstul CR valves. Significant difference. More centered and easier to center/find the pitch, improved focus and with it projection, and smoother transitions from open to valved horn.

I'm a little confused, did you have a Bach 50 with Kanstul CR valves that you changed out for Olsen Valves? My experience with CR valves is that they have one of the smoothest transitions of all the valves I've played. I often keep hoping that BAC received the tooling / licensing for that, and might start production of them.

[Kbiggs]

I changed my 50 from Kanstul CR valves. Significant difference. More centered and easier to center/find the pitch, improved focus and with it projection, and smoother transitions from open to valved horn.

I'm a little confused, did you have a Bach 50 with Kanstul CR valves that you changed out for Olsen Valves? My experience with CR valves is that they have one of the smoothest transitions of all the valves I've played. I often keep hoping that BAC received the tooling / licensing for that, and might start production of them.

Yep, that’s what I said. While they may have “one of the smoothest transitions” of the many available valves out there,* that might not always be a positive attribute at all times for all players. There are other reasons why I decided to change my valves, like more focus and center to the sound, improved projection and articulation, etc.

*Like BurgerBob said, it’s going to be hard to find CR valves and I don’t know whether BAC will produce them in future. While I hope they do, I believe there are some things in the design and manufacture that could be improved.

[Bonearzt]

I think Boneaphone gives a good estimate. If using a lot of parts and the thumb lever components from the original F-attachment section of the Bach 42, the price is about $600 for the conversion. If starting with a straight horn or using new tubing/new thumb lever components, the price can go much higher very quickly.....maybe $850-900 or higher. In other words, recycled parts can be very useful!

I am huge fan of the Olsen Rotary valves. I just had two Bach 42 horns with Olsen valves come through the shop in the last week for cleaning and tune-ups. The first one had a bell section that I built about 5 years ago. The second trombone was built by Eric Edwards, frequent contributor on TromboneChat. By the way.....nice work Eric! When I play-tested the horns, they were both absolutely fantastic.

Thank you Sir!!

[Walleye]

For any techs that have done the conversion, what additional tubing is required when doing an instrument innovations rotary valve replacement to a mid 1980's closed wrap 42, and can it be sourced? Thanks

[JustKen]

I just did a Conn 88H conversion from the same era and same closed wrap. I think I only needed one 90 degree bend, one small 45 degree bend, and a new tuning slide bow (open wrap, wider tuning slide). Everything else was used from the existing wrap. I had a pretty standard Shires/Greenhoe wrap in the mod. The price discussed here looks pretty close to what I put into my horn, but I had a few additional things beyond a straight valve conversion that I decided on once it got to the shop.