Historically Un-informed Performance

[robcat2075]

I've been perusing old orchestral programs to discover forgotten repertoire of the past.

This one, however, would still align with today's taste...

NYP-1922-04-02a.jpg

But isn't it... odd... that they don't mention the soloist for the prominent flute part in the Bach?

Check out this program note about the instrumentation and the accompanying foot note...

NYP-1922-04-02b.jpg

Eight. And with a fake harpsichord.


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[Posaunus]

8 flutes! WOW.

Wonder what the dates * 1645-1704 referred to? Long before any of the compositions on this program.

I just happened to listen to a (more historically-informed) performance of the Bach 2nd Orchestral Suite while driving home yesterday. What delightful music! As soon as I returned home, I pulled out some CDs and listened to yet more Bach.

[robcat2075]

Wonder what the dates * 1645-1704 referred to? Long before any of the compositions on this program.

A reference to another Bach-era composer, farther up the page, that I didn't include

[ithinknot]

Mengelberg's 1939 Matthew Passion recording is pretty extraordinary, and rather devastating if approached sympathetically. Of course it's huge and slow, but there's an echt-Romantic concern for melody and (almost) lightness of touch to the unbelievable tempo fluctuations and liberties that feels very C19th.

A lot of pre-HIP mid-C20th readings (Klemperer, et al) come across as pure stylus turgidus now, but this is something else, reaching back at least a half century earlier (not only because M had begun the Concertgebouw's Palm Sunday Matthew Passion tradition in 1899).

[Posaunus]

My standard of excellence for Bach has become the wonderful YouTube recordings of the Netherlands Bach Society. Uniformly wonderful to my ears. I'd love to attend a live performance!

[LeTromboniste]

Wonder what the dates * 1645-1704 referred to? Long before any of the compositions on this program.

I'm guessing Charpentier (now usually 1643, but used to be given as circa 1645), or Georg Christoph Strattner, who was one of Bach's predecessor in Weimar.




Yeah, 8 flutes is pretty wild!

[robcat2075]

Wonder what the dates * 1645-1704 referred to? Long before any of the compositions on this program.

I'm guessing Charpentier (now usually 1643, but used to be given as circa 1645), or Georg Christoph Strattner, who was one of Bach's predecessor in Weimar.

Yeah, 8 flutes is pretty wild!

You may peruse the complete program notes here

https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/a ... 1/mode/2up

Also of interest: the extensive explanation of Heldenleben

[Posaunus]

Georg Muffat (1645-1704) !

[LeTromboniste]

Probably not a "fake" harpsichord but an early 20th century one, build using a piano steel frame, often with pedals. Very different from historical instruments of course, but the norm until about the middle of the century.

[robcat2075]

I heard he was just putting playing cards in the spokes.

[ithinknot]

Probably not a "fake" harpsichord but an early 20th century one, build using a piano steel frame, often with pedals. Very different from historical instruments of course, but the norm until about the middle of the century.

No, given that the programme notes above mention a modified piano. And the 1939 MP pretty clearly uses the thumb-tack-Steinway (like some 50s Gould recordings) - it sounds nothing like a 30s Neupert or Pleyel, and the hairpin dynamic possibilities are very much in evidence.

I heard he was just putting playing cards in the spokes.

Basically, yes..!

[robcat2075]

Here is the oldest recording of the #2 I find on archive .org

https://archive.org/details/l-1557-8-ba ... in-b-minor

An acoustic recording from 1924... only one flute! No harpsichord.

Hamilton Harty conducts "The Symphony Orchestra" with Robert Murchie, Flute.



To my ear, it sounds slow and sloppy and shriekingly out of tune.

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[robcat2075]

BTW, that concert was 100 years ago today.

How far we've come... to get back to the past!

Probably not a "fake" harpsichord but an early 20th century one, build using a piano steel frame, often with pedals. Very different from historical instruments of course, but the norm until about the middle of the century.

Wanda Landowska was famous with her full metal jacket harpsichord. I think this is the sort that Le Tromboniste is referring to...

[Posaunus]

Here is the oldest recording of the #2 I find on archive .org
https://archive.org/details/l-1557-8-ba ... in-b-minor
An acoustic recording from 1924... only one flute! No harpsichord.
Hamilton Harty conducts "The Symphony Orchestra" with Robert Murchie, Flute.

To my ear, it sounds slow and sloppy and shriekingly out of tune.

That was really hard to listen to!